Some Future Day

Marc Beckman : Bill Walton, it's such an honor to have you join me on some future day. Welcome.
Bill Walton: Um, I'm so glad to be here. I followed your on YouTube and your books and, uh, I feel like I should be interviewing you.
Marc Beckman : Maybe someday. Maybe someday. Um, but let's start looking at the tariff wars. They're like such a hot button right now. I feel like a lot of people are [00:02:00] just talking, the talking heads in the media. All of my friends who have become experts on tariffs. Um, something that people aren't talking about though is.
Grow the the GDP percentage of exports. And it's really interesting if you look at these numbers, if I could just quickly share them. the United States exports to Canada and Mexico represent 2.3% of the United States total GDP, whereas. Exports from Mexico and Canada into the United States are far greater.
In fact, 31.7% of Mexico's GDP is derived from exports to the United States. 31.7% Bill and 19.6% of the, of Canada's GDP are, um, comprised of their exports to the United States. So I think that's a real interesting, uh, juxtaposition. United States [00:03:00] exports to Canada and Mexico, 2.3%, 31 point se 7% from Mexico, 19.6% for Canada, far greater.
So let's start with tariffs. How, how do you look at the, how would you analyze those numbers? Like are those numbers important and what do they mean?
Bill Walton: Well, they're, they're vitally in, you know, and as Donald Trump would say it, it puts America in a position where we hold the cards. Uh, you know, if we sneeze Mexico and Canada catch pneumonia, uh, because their, their economies are totally dependent on trade with the United States, and any, any diminution of that trade is gonna hurt them very badly.
So, if this continues where we're going, tit for tat with, uh, tariffs, I think Canada's gonna be holding a gun to its own head. Now I'm, I'm in the camp. I came from the free trade camp, and I don't really think tariffs are or something, it ought to be part of the permanent part of the economic landscape. I, I like what, uh, president [00:04:00] Trump was doing by calling.
His, uh, by calling what he is talking, he, he's seeking re reciprocity where if, if one side's gonna have tariffs, the other side should have it, but it ought to be the same percentage, which I think that seems fair to everybody. Uh, and then of course we've got China, which is a wholly different, uh, uh, kettle of fish, but we can stick just with, uh, uh, you know, and, and I think the free trade idea among, in North America, it was a very good one, but unfortunately our negotiators, uh, gave up an awful lot to the Canada and Mexico to, uh, to achieve that.
And Trump is going to, going to fix that. I'm, I'm a big fan of what he is doing
Marc Beckman : Well, it's interesting, Bill, because I often look at whether or not we are in a free marketplace, whether we really have a capitalistic economy. So I see you're, you're, uh, nodding your head, uh, to the negative. We don't. So are you suggesting that we get, should we eliminate perhaps all global tariffs? Like what would happen [00:05:00] if we had a free marketplace?
Bill Walton: Well, it's not clear that that would be good for us strategically, because, you know, the whole theory is based on some 18th century, uh, economists when it's talked about the theory of comparative advantage. And it's basically if a country can be a low cost producer, it ought dominate the market. And if another country dominates another industry, they should be the dominant producer in that market.
Well, that's fine, except if you're talking about something like pharmaceuticals. And we saw during the, uh, during the covid, uh, uh, catastrophe that, uh, we were horribly dependent upon China in our supply chain when it comes to, uh, pharmaceutical drugs. We can't even manufacture aspirin in America. We can't manufacture antibiotics.
So. It's not necessarily tariffs that would cause that balance, but I think you can't look at free markets and treat country's borders as if they're, uh, they're not relevant. They are. And so there's a, there's a strategic element, a national [00:06:00] defense element, a national security element that we gotta factor in.
Marc Beckman : Well, naturally pricing and cost of goods becomes an issue when you get into this tariff discussion. And of course on the pharmaceutical side, one realizes medicine is expensive here in the United States, and perhaps that's why so many of our pharmaceuticals are now created, not just in China, to your point, but in India as well.
Generally speaking though, beyond the pharmaceutical piece, I have so many friends that are just, they're going crazy over the fact that Trump is increasing the tariffs and the saying, it's gonna be terrible, it's gonna cause inflation. The cost of everything is gonna go up because of China in particular.
What do you think, Bill, do you think that we'll see a a, a jump in in consumer prices?
Bill Walton: I, I think he's playing the long game. I mean, I, I'm, I'm good friends with Bob Lighthizer, who's his trade representative in the last, uh, in Trump 1.0. And, and, and Donald Trump is really working to bring [00:07:00] manufacturing and jobs back to the United States. And, you know, the United States through the 18th and 19th century, most all the way up through the mid 1850s, 1870s, was operated behind a, a very serious, uh, tariff barrier in allowed a lot of the industries, the nascent industries in the us, uh, to grow and establish a very strong, uh, a strong competitive edge.
And what we've done by letting other countries keep us out of their markets while they're, we're letting them in our markets, is we've really hurt domestic manufacturing. What have we lost 90,000 manufacturing plants in the last 30, 40 years? So, I'm willing to suffer a little, I think he will say this.
I'm willing to suffer a little, uh, short, short term, uh, pain in order to bring, uh, to create incentives for companies both here, uh, and abroad to, uh, set up manufacturing and, and distribution in the us.
Marc Beckman : So that's the trade off, right? We think that it should work and yeah. [00:08:00] So which sectors do you think will benefit most from that? Where, where do you think the jobs will be created as, let's say foreign companies enter the United States for production of their goods?
Bill Walton: Well, I'm not sure. I mean, and then I'm not sure, you know, obviously Automo Automotive is going to be one of those areas that, uh, could benefit from that. Uh, when you look at the high tech. Portion of it. It's not clear how many jobs that's actually gonna create. Uh, you know, and I'm, I, I guess I, I guess I'm gonna default on that question 'cause I can't predict what what it is.
But I do think that the number of jobs we're gonna need for manufacturing in 2025 were not even remotely similar to the kind of jobs we'd need for manufacturing plant in 1975. In 15 year, in 50 years, we've tr seen tremendous increases in, uh, productivity of labor. So you may need half the people or a third of the people to, uh, to do the same thing you did [00:09:00] 50 years ago.
But nevertheless, it is being done here. And as I mentioned, there's a, there's a strategic advantage to, uh, to having it here.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I see that too. I see that as
Bill Walton: There's, there's one other thing I wanna mention though is that there's this, we got into this idea and I was, you know, I'm afraid, I'm afraid, I was one of the people who really believed this was that you could, you could do Desi design in the United States and then you could outsource manufacturing to another country.
I've now come to think that you can't really do that. You gotta be close to the manufacturing element when you're designing, because you learn an awful lot when you make things. And I think that's one of the advantages that Chinese have.
What do they represent now? Uh, 25, 30% of global manufacturing. And so bringing, uh, manufacturing back in to, to match up with what companies are doing in the design side, I think, I think would be a good thing. It would help, uh, help spur innovation even more than what we have now.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I think that's interesting. It's a great point. Um, [00:10:00] personally, I'm, I'm an an individual who believes that superior design drives businesses, drives entire sectors. And you could go across from like the lifestyle categories, fashion, music, art, but then go into like travel, hospitality. Like we're starting to see new designs come out, not just in automotive, but uh, consumer driven, consumer, uh, airplanes and beyond.
So it's interesting that you're saying that I think innovation and design, at the end of the day, does do a lot beyond just the utility that a product might provide the American consumer.
Bill Walton: Right.
Marc Beckman : So, so Bill, let's think the other way though. Um, there's a, there is a risk beyond just the economics as it relates to these tariffs, and we're starting to see some retaliation right there, there, there are countries like Canada this week that are raising, uh, that tariffs on us.
And I'm curious like what other risks, what other types of retaliation can we see from foreign countries on [00:11:00] America as we raise our tariffs?
Bill Walton: Well, I think tariffs would be the main one. I don't, I don't see that there are many other weapons in their quiver. Um, it's not like they could, Europe in particular has been, uh, bereft of, uh, technological innovation. I, I looked at a chart the other day that showed the market cap of companies that have, you know, reached a billion dollars in the last 50 years.
And about 99% of those companies are in the United States, and about 1% are in Europe. And so it's not like they can use their technological edge to, to intimidate us or withhold, uh, withhold ideas and innovation And, uh. And I'm not even sure any other country can really, so I, I think tariffs would be the main, uh, tool.
And I think you probably, it sounds like you agree with it too. I think, I think tariffs are a tremendously blunt instrument and I think one of the things that's happening with tariffs now is we, we have them one day and then we don't have 'em the next, and then we have 'em the day after that. And what, [00:12:00] what, what businesses don't like is uncertainty.
And we've got a ma of all the things Trump's doing on the economy, I think the one that's the messiest is this trade thing we're talking about. And the ones that potentially the most, uh, most detrimental if we don't do it right.
Marc Beckman : Yeah. What do you think will happen short term with regards to the tariff situation? It seems like a lot of this is President Trump posturing, negotiating, trying to, uh, find benefits beyond just economies, for example, you know, stopping the, the, uh, uh, trade of fentanyl into the nation and and beyond. Uh, but in your mind, what do you think will happen?
Bill Walton: Well, I think he's pretty serious about the fentanyl. I mean, it's been a, it's been a, a plague in this country and we've got a hundred thousand people dying every year. And it's, you know, of course the Mexico and Canada are just the conduits through which they come into the us. It's really China that's manufacturing the, uh, the lethal stuff for at least most of it.
And, but you know, [00:13:00] Mexico's interesting because I. You could have tariffs erected tariff barrier in Mexico, which would influence their, their manufacturing. But I'm, I'm wonder how much of Mexico controls itself. I think the entire nor northern border is in the hands of the cartels and we've declared cartels a terrorist organization.
And so I think one of the games that may be played out is whether we get the, uh, the Army involved in dealing with the tariffs. And so it's, it's, it's combustible. I don't think we're just making an economic, uh, analysis. I think we've gotta look at a, uh, a potential military, um, outcome.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I think that's interesting. You know, the fentanyl issue to me. Um, there are some other issues too that, that fall into what I'm about to say, but for me, it really strikes a chord. It resonates with me personally because my cousin, my 18-year-old cousin died from Fentanyl and you know, there are a lot of issues that come with that granted, [00:14:00] right?
Like, uh, he shouldn't have been mixed up with drugs in the first place, but he died and it's an issue that I don't see. That should be political. I didn't understand why the Biden administration didn't attack that issue further. And it feels like fentanyl has become a political issue, but it doesn't have to be.
Right.
Bill Walton: Well, it's Trump's it's Trump arrangement. I mean, Democrats now find themselves, uh, um, supporting, uh, what Elon Musk is uncovered as fraud. I mean, it's, they're, they're defending the indefensible and everything has become partisan because anything Trump wants, I mean, look at what happened when Biden came in.
He, he took everything that Trump did, had his own stack, stack of executive orders. And it didn't matter what it was, they were gonna reverse it. And they did a lot. They're doing a lot of damage to the country and they're also doing a lot of own damage to their own, uh, their own brand, their own party.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, that's for sure. But I don't think legislation could keep up with the Trump administration. Right. Do you see Congress [00:15:00] moving fast enough?
Bill Walton: Not a chance.
Marc Beckman : Not a chance. I love it. I mean, you worked with him very closely. What was it like working
Bill Walton: Well, I, I, I didn't work with him that closely. I was in the first transition in 2016, 2017, and he was just pretty new at all this, and we were down in Washington. I had, we had some tremendous economic experts. I handled the action plans for all of the financial, um, agencies and, and cabinet, uh, cabinet rules.
It was about a third of the government. It was very, very interesting. We had about 200 people developing good action plans for these, these departments. And, but Trump was, uh, he was up in New York, in Trump Tower. And so, and when we started in with the action, uh, our planning of the transition as they call it, uh, this was in the summer before the election.
He didn't want to have much to do with this because he thought planning what you're going to do, um, when you won an election was bad luck. And, you know, if you, [00:16:00] if he was absolutely right when it came, Mitt Romney, by comparison, had a wonderful set of plans that he'd developed, but then he forgot to win the election. And so and so it was, uh, you know, I think there was a lot of disconnects then and, and what we've seen now in Trump 2.0, you know, this started last summer in Mar-a-Lago, probably long before that, where they were developing detailed plans in conjunction with him personally for what they wanted to do if he won the election and what to do after he was inaugurated.
And I think we, you know, with people like Russ vote on the, on the job heading up OMB, you know, they're, they're running this thing like clockwork. Uh, as I pen, as I mentioned, the only thing I think has gotten really messy is the tariffs. But everything else I like, I like what they're doing.
Marc Beckman : Well, one area that you and I find really interesting is in emerging technology, uh, certainly Trump's planning. Both AI and crypto to become a [00:17:00] major pillar within his forward-looking economic strategy. I know that they've been planning it, and I mentioned to you I was in Washington, DC this past Friday at the, crypto Summit, which was incredible to see an incredible experience.
So artificial intelligence should do a lot as it relates to innovation, creativity, job growth, uh, perhaps, uh, where do, where do you feel, uh, the country's going as it relates to these two sectors, artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency?
Bill Walton: Well, I think artificial intelligence is inevitable. I mean, it's got such momentum now in the, you know, thousands of millions of people who creating, creating, uh. Creating the technology as we speak. And it's, you know, it's vastly different, uh, than it was even three months ago. And we're seeing innovations.
I'm, I'm investing a, in a, in a hardware company that's making, we're, we're making a chip, which we think is, uh, a better alternative than NVIDIA's. So, [00:18:00] uh, stay tuned. But, you know, these things work. Uh, one in one in one in a thousand. But if it works, it's definitely worth it. But there's so much change going on.
I think it's inevitable. I, I saw a statistic the other day that just look at regular manufacturing and, and service companies in America. Uh, in the last three or four years, the number of people, the percentage of people they're, they're trying to hire that has AI skills. Uh, has jumped from almost nothing to 30, 40%.
So they're, every company in America is looking at people that know something about it. Now, most of those hires are not gonna be ready to go to work for, uh, um, you know, for, for Claude.ai or for ChatGPT. It's just basically people who can, who can talk to AI and help, uh, help do some research on it. But, uh, it's gonna pervade every industry.
And I also, you know, the other thing that's happening, and I know we talked about the impact on jobs, but Goldman, Goldman Sachs is telling us that, uh, and I came up [00:19:00] through the investment banking business is that the, you know, in the old days when you did an offering, you needed five to 15 people, analysts and lawyers, accountants, to put together an offering memorandum.
And it would take three months to do that, roughly, or, and now what they can do, they can prepare an offering memorandum about 95% of what they need using AI, um, in about, uh, five minutes. And so the, the question is, what, how are we gonna redeploy that talent? Which, which, which is a high level of talent and, uh, and is something else, uh, even more productive than what they're doing before?
Marc Beckman : So Bill, historically, let's face it, America gets crazed when new technologies come. People fear that technologies will disrupt and eliminate jobs. We've seen that historically, whether it's been with the advent of the automobile and beyond. What do you think is going to happen here as you go a little bit deeper into the job [00:20:00] landscape?
Which sectors do you anticipate will lose jobs?
Bill Walton: well, I think the white collar sector is the most vulnerable and the, the CEO of, uh, Claude, um, it's, I'm trying to remember the name of the company. You probably know it. Uh, uh, who, who owns Claude? Uh. Anyway, the one, their, uh, very credible guy, and he said that, uh, right now he thinks that like 75, 75 to 80% of the code can be developed using ai.
Uh, by the end of the year, he thinks 100% of it can be do, done where AI's, you know, do writing its own code. And so what that does for p and I've talked with some people yesterday who are in that industry and they say, yeah, the, the people have got the, the, the code writing talent, uh, are, um, are out of work now.
And they're trying to figure out a way to, uh, to find something else to do. So I [00:21:00] think, and then as I mentioned, the, the accounting industry is gonna be affected. The legal, legal profession's gonna be affected. Uh, I, I think actually the, the mental health perfection profession is gonna have a very interesting competitor because you can, you can sit with Claude or Chet, GPT or any one of these things and start asking questions and tell 'em about this or that Next thing you know, they're, uh, they're providing counseling, so,
Marc Beckman : Bill, I gotta tell you, I have a business colleague who he and his wife have agreed to use ChatGPT to resolve their marital issues.
Bill Walton: I think that's, I think why not? I mean, if you, you know, if we think about it, what, what, what have these AI companies done? And you write about it in your book. They've, they've basically surveyed the planet and they've captured every single word that's ever been written on a topic by everyone. And so if you survey the mental health literature and the counseling literature, uh, they're gonna have access to the best thinking about [00:22:00] what works and what doesn't work.
And, you know, but we both know is if you gotta prompt the AI with the right questions and you gotta deal with it, so you get answers that are useful. And there are a lot of biases built into AI, but I, I think, I think they're on thero right track. And so in the marriage counseling business, uh, maybe, maybe another one that's, uh, uh, likely to be threatened.
Marc Beckman : So Bill, whereas I agree with you that the white, uh, collar jobs, including law, accounting, these other types of services that you're recommending, I, I, I think that they will be hit. There's no doubt about it. I, I entirely agree with you. Um, but let's, let's just hover over the issue of code writing for a second, because it's really interesting.
Think about it like this. So historically, people like you are creative, you're innovative, you're a builder. You come from a background where you're investing dollars in creating companies and creating jobs, but what you [00:23:00] can't do is code. Now the language is changing, the coding language is English. All of a sudden, Bill Walton could come up with this new financial instrument, could come up with this really cool utility based, um, uh, financial instrument that the masses could use.
And in plain English, Bill Walton could become a new coder, and that business could stand up in a way that nobody thought about before and in turn create new jobs. What about the ecosystem that artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency will require, um, as it relates to new jobs, experts in finance and AI law and ai creative industries and ai, do you think perhaps this, the fact that coding.
The new language for coding is English and everyone on the planet could become a coder. New businesses, new innovation, advances in medicine and, and, [00:24:00] you know, war weapon, weapons of war and beyond. Do you think that's gonna turn new jobs up?
Bill Walton: I think it will. Ultimately, I think the question is just the timeframe. I mean, every time we've seen a massive change in technology, whether it's the manufacturing in the 18 hundreds, which got people out of ag, ag outta the agricultural sector and into, into factories, or when, when the, um, electronic, uh, uh, age came in and people ended up, uh, working in radio and TV and things like that.
There's always been transitions where most of society does find itself doing more interesting, higher value stuff. The, the, the question I have is this, I, I don't think we've ever seen anything advance as quickly, uh, as, uh, as AI has. And so how quickly, uh, people can make that adjustment and do they have talent to do it?
Now, I hope you're not gonna force me to write code. That's one of the things, that's one of the things I never wanted to [00:25:00] do. So,
Marc Beckman : there, baby. We're going
Bill Walton: do you know how to write code? Are you, uh, are you conversant in that?
Marc Beckman : definitely not,
Bill Walton: Okay.
Marc Beckman : I could tell you this, like with a background in law, I see what artificial intelligence platforms are being built, like Harvey, for example, and they're exceptional. They're really exceptional, and I do think we'll see entire slivers of industry wiped out as a result of it.
But I do believe humans beat machines all day long. I really do. But I see, I think we'll see, my feeling is that new jobs will be created and it's going to be very valuable to society. From an economic perspective. We'll see more growth, but I also believe with that, we'll see other benefits, not just, you know, people having the time to spend with family and their loved ones, but innovative people, again, like you're a builder, people like you will have more time to concentrate than on creating new, innovative businesses.
Um, perhaps then trickling over into [00:26:00] important areas like. Food and healthcare and beyond. I think that the advent of artificial intelligence is going to radically change the way our society functions within three to five years. I, I really am very bullish. I think it's gonna happen quickly. I see the technology growing.
Um, I know what's coming next. Uh, I think we're gonna see a GI way quicker than we expect, and that's gonna create a lot of advances for us too.
Bill Walton: do you think about road robot robots?
Marc Beckman : I love robots. I, um, I write about
Bill Walton: am I, why am I not surprised?
Marc Beckman : I, well, I write about in the book, it's efficient. We're there already, right? When you start to think about avs or autonomous vehicles are already, you know, functioning and, and legal in certain states.
Um, I think one sector that we're gonna, where we're gonna see tremendous growth with robots Bill is in the security sector. Not just with regards to drones, but also with regards to home [00:27:00] security, with regards to security for offices, uh, banks. It's gonna really stand up in a major way. And I think robots are gonna play a, a big role also in transitioning people away from the monotonous tasks that they hate, think in terms of cooking or folding laundry or beyond.
And as they become more affordable from. Companies, including like Elon Musk's company, Tesla will start to see shared robots at first running errands, going grocery shopping, coming into your home and stacking the shelves, and it's gonna create more efficiencies. People will have time to, you know, focus on the things that are important to them.
Family, friends, their loved ones, creating new businesses because of robots.
Bill Walton: Well, I know in the venture capital area, I'm, I'm coming back to, uh, ai. What I'm hearing is that, uh. When they see do put, do seed capital or early stage capital, they're finding the number of hires they need [00:28:00] to get it, get it off the ground as dramatically. They're dramatically fewer people than they used to, and they can, they can get the scale dollar scale much more rapidly using AI than they could by, by hiring a team of people.
And that, uh, what they've done is they've, they've spread their bets across more companies. And so we're, I think we could see a, a proliferation of, uh, of innovation because the VC world can, instead of, you know, if you're running a VC fund, instead of doing 10 deals, you might do 2025. And, uh. Let the best company win.
I know we're also seeing some convergence. We're not. Convergence used to be invested in venture capital. You'd pick one company in a sector and you were gonna stay loyal to that. Now what they're beginning to do is seed, uh, you know, eight or eight or nine companies. So they've got 'em in the portfolio, and if some one of 'em takes off, they put the, um, they put their capital behind that.
And that's all a function of this, uh, this AI revolution.
Marc Beckman : I think America needs that. That's the way we [00:29:00] grew. Web two, right? Money went into Silicon Valley to prop up all of these E-com businesses, these web two businesses, apps were built and then we had, you know, a lot of liquidity as a result of the internet, effectively working for everyone. And I think we're gonna see that growth with AI too.
What's interesting though, and I wanna go back to one of your investments that you highlighted quickly on, on the chip side, um, artificial intelligence, the ecosystem really is comprised of three components. There's energy, there's hardware, there's the algorithm, the software, and your, your investment with regards to the chip side of it is interesting to me in particular because of what we saw with DeepSeek.
What we saw with DeepSeek was two things. It challenged Nvidia. Number one. We saw consumers don't really care whether or not they have the best chip available behind running the LLM or training the LLM, right? From an inference perspective or from a training perspective, they [00:30:00] could care less. They just want answers number one.
That seemed to be correct. And number two, they want affordability. So what I believe happened with DeepSeek or one component of that entire transaction that like, you know, crushed Nvidia for a second was, um, and DeepSeek was able to use, I think they stole a few chips there. I think some chips were, uh, not, they didn't steal, but I think some chips were, uh, sent into, um, DeepSeek, uh, through Singapore.
And that's a whole other story. But I think DeepSeek used, uh, less lesser quality chips than the Nvidia super chip. And as a result, there is, um, I think the, the moat, NVIDIA's Moat has opened up. I know a lot of the big tech companies, including Amazon and Google, are building their own chips too right now as we speak.
I'm curious, uh, what's your perspective on the chip industry? Where do you think we're going
Bill Walton: Well, my entrepreneurs believe that, uh, the Nvidia [00:31:00] ship, which was for great for graphics and computer games, and that sort of is sort of thing is, has kind of reached its limit in terms of what it's doing with ai. And we know that that particular ship requires a massive amount of power, uh, to, uh, to do its work.
And so what we're working on is an alternative, and I can't really get into the details, an eternal alternative type ship. Um, and, and linking it, linking two or three of 'em together in a way that we could produce the same, uh, the same computing power, but using 10 times less, less electricity. And, you know, the, the limit, one of the big limiting factors of AI, as you know.
We're gonna need a lot of electrical power generation to, uh, to feed these things. And so that's, you know, that's another part of the puzzle. We may not need as much if, if chip manufacturers can come up with, uh, with a better mousetrap.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I think that's really interesting, and obviously a lot of energy use goes into cryptocurrency as well. I'm [00:32:00] curious from your perspective, where does crypto stand up next to ai? How does that play into the, into the model?
Bill Walton: Well, I don't see, you know, you're a crypto guy, so I don't wanna, and you're the host. I don't want to get into too much. I'm, I'm not a, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm fairly agnostic about crypto because I think it's just another fiat currency. I think people have gotten together and they agree that, that crypto or bitcoin is worth something because somebody else is willing to pay X for it.
But, but again, the dollar is a fiat currency. It's not linked to anything like gold. So we've got, uh, a belief system which supports currencies. And right now we have a lot of people who believe that Bitcoin and all the related, um, all the related, uh, currencies, uh, have a great future. And as long as everybody believes that it's going to have value.
But I, I, I don't think maybe the Coinbase has solved the problem, but it's not really a good unit. It is not very good for transactions. It's pretty good for a [00:33:00] store of value. Maybe to create wealth, but I, I don't see, uh, I don't see it replacing, uh, dollars in that. Of course, as I say that, I'm sure that somebody's already beginning to figure out how to do that if they haven't already done it.
Maybe you can answer that question. Where do you, when, when does it become valuable if you go to the grocery store?
Marc Beckman : I, I think the, um, utility piece of it, as you're talking about as currency is there today, but I don't believe that in Web3 we've created a system yet that's easy for most consumers. So we're going there. The other thing that I want to just be clear about as it relates to my own philosophy is that I.
Imagine you agree with me on this, by the way, just from what you just said, but like, I think we would be foolish to try to eliminate the US dollar fiat currency with cryptocurrency now. I mean, it's, it's just the most ridiculous concept ever. We should stand up crypto and start building on top of it because after all, young millennials, gen [00:34:00] Z and frankly Gen Alpha also, they're all digital, right?
Everything they're doing is digital. So, um, as a developing a digital currency, digital assets, um, and beyond, it matters. And to have the United States government try to put our country in a lead position there could be super valuable. But we cannot, we should not think about eliminating the US dollar right now.
That would just be absurd.
Bill Walton: Well, it would be, and uh, you know, I've got a streak of libertarian in me. Not, not entirely, but a lot. And when crypto first currency, when it first started emerging, I thought this was a tremendous way to create a store of value and, and, and transactions that were apart from, from governments. And, you know, that was very appealing.
And I guess my concern now is that we're now creating a crypto reserve and the US government's gonna be involved in it. It makes me very skeptical that we're gonna escape the, the predations of, uh, the federal government. And, uh, [00:35:00] I think, I think that's a bad part of it, as opposed, so I'm not really cheering the creation of this, this reserve, uh, 'cause it gets us more into the business.
I, I, I would like us, I would like the federal government to be out of the business, but yet have regulations probably through the SEC so that we could let a thousand, uh, what is it, a thousand flowers bloom or something like that. And, uh, let many of innovations come up and, and let, let this operate, uh, separate and apart from, uh, from the government.
Marc Beckman : Truly decentralized. I mean, that's the nature of cryptocurrency. One person who was noticeably missing from the Crypto Summit is the founder of the Carano Protocol and, uh, the ADA cryptocurrency. And one of his criticisms of the event that occurred at the White House is exactly this issue. It's a decentralized platform.
It is a decentralized way of doing business. Put the power into the [00:36:00] individual. It's about liberty and freedom. And if the government is centralizing it, it's counter, it contradicts everything that crypto's being built for.
Bill Walton: exactly. That's my view. So I'm, I'm, uh, but I'm not as deeply invested in it. I, I've, you know, I've, I've dipped my toe in it, but it's not, um, and I know Michael Saylor, I met him when he was 20 years ago, when he was doing.com things, and, uh, I'm, I'm not, I don't have Michael ER's enthusiasm to it, but I, I don't know that I'd want to own his stock though, because it hasn't, he hasn't, he leveraged up tremendously to own, uh, to um, own his, uh, cash of cash of, uh, of Bitcoin and other currencies.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, that's right. He's the single largest holder. Of Bitcoin and obviously very public about it, although it is transparent. But what's interesting about Bitcoin is the fact that there is only a finite amount of Bitcoin that's created. There are 21 million units, and because of that, [00:37:00] it is inflation proof, right?
We're living in a day and age Bill that is, um, post trust. We don't trust the government and the manipulation of our currency and, and how they impact or adversely impact our currency. And as a result, we hit inflation. In fact, I have a, a, another stat here that I pulled in anticipation of speaking with you.
The Pew Research Center, uh, center from February of 2025 cited that, um, inflation remains a very big problem according to 63. Percent of Americans, and it continues to strain household budgets, uh, prices for essentials like groceries and even gasoline. So how do you expect the new administration beyond their little play with crypto right now, how do you expect them to really lay in new economic policies to, to combat, um, inflation and, and interest rate, uh, hikes and and so on?
Bill Walton: Well, it's gonna be a [00:38:00] long slog. There's no, there's no instant fix. I mean, tariffs had a small amount to inflation compared to what happens when you finance massive deficits with by issuing debt. And that's essentially what we've done, didn't I? I think I heard that 40% of the currency, um, that exists now is, was created in the last four years.
Marc Beckman : Wow, that's massive.
Bill Walton: so, yeah, that's why we've got inflation. So you gotta take, break it into, there's, there's no one thing you do. I mean, one of the things you do is you, you, you begin to deregulate massively. So you can free up the, uh, the wealth creators to do what they do and create jobs and, and, and new products and better, better quality products are de deflationary, uh, in, in, in the way they operate.
You also get the deficit down, which is what we hope is, uh, Elon Musk is doing with Doge. And, and, uh, you know, I think the other side of this, not just an, uh, an [00:39:00] economic issue, but I think we're discovering a lot of fraud in, in a lot of these programs, particularly NGOs. So you pull that out of the equation and you begin to reduce the amount of dollars that the, uh, the United States is putting out there, that that will help.
Um. And, you know, I think tax policy, if we get, if we renew the tax cuts and we create incentives for companies, uh, to reinvest in, uh, in, uh, thing in productivity. In productivity and, and, uh, new products, I think that'll be deflationary. But it's not a, it's not a, it's, it is not, you can't just sort of say, we're gonna do this one thing and it's gonna go away.
I know, of course, when you, when you, when you kill billions of chickens, you can kind of expect egg prices to go up.
Marc Beckman : Right. I mean, it's, it's weird. I, right here in New York City, I recently went to, uh, trader Joe's and there were no, there were no eggs. You couldn't buy eggs. Zero eggs. I've never seen that before in my lifetime. Incredible, [00:40:00] actually.
Bill Walton: you know, every, every fiat currency fails. I mean, it's, it's, we've got this issue where we've gone off, off, off, off our mooring of anything fixed, fixing our, the value of our currency. And we're just trusting in, in government not to issue too much of it. And that trust has not been well founded. The dollars worth what?
2% of what it was worth at the turn of the, uh, you know, beginning of the 20th century. And, uh. You know, we're, we're, uh, you know, we're, I think government particularly with, with Biden has squandered its people's trust in it. And so it, I think the other thing is that part of getting the inflationary, um, um, tamp inflation tamped down is just reducing people's inflation expectations.
I mean. Inflation expectations have a way of raising prices all of of their own, because people buy things, um, before they need them, and they drive prices up. So there's a, there's a vastly, there's a very interesting, uh, algorithm that goes into [00:41:00] this. And fortunately, I think Trump, uh, for the most part gets it.
I know somebody like Kevin Hassett who's running his, uh. One of his advisory council certainly gets it. And, and, uh, I know Scott Bessant, who's, who's I think is very, very, got a very big brain to deal with, this is likely to, to, uh, to help solve it. I think the other thing you can do is reconstruct, restructure our debt.
And I know that, uh, Scott's working on that, and there may be a way to finance out our, our treasury debt longer term, which would be helpful to our cash flow. Anyway. I think I'm ticking off too many, too many things, but if, if, you know, if you, if you, if you gave me the job to do that, and uh, I don't need to do it because we got a lot of smart people in there now.
I think these are the kind of things they're working on.
Marc Beckman : Well, I wanna get to debt with you in a second, but just to stay on the inflation issue, like you'd mentioned that it's going to take time, that we need to look at it in a more holistic way. There are several factors that are causing the inflation, but let's [00:42:00] face it, like, you know, jokingly we're talking about eggs.
But you know, at the end of the day, the American family was probably sitting around their table before the election and looking at what the cost was just to eat right. Probably didn't have enough money to take a vacation or plan a vacation. Scared that they were running out of money because of the prices of eggs and milk and gasoline and beyond.
The cost of living is still high today. Granted, the new administration's only been in office for a second. I get that. I understand that. But how much time do you think it will really take to get inflation under control? Do you think businesses are willing to like pull back the prices that they're getting right now and give up a potential, you know, great profit margin at the end of the day?
Bill Walton: no, I don't, I don't, it, it's not gonna work that way. I mean, one of the ways you, you, you do something about it is you get energy prices down. And I happen to think fossil fuels are not [00:43:00] the, not the demon that some people portray them as. And you get gasoline prices down, um, um, and so forth. And that will dramatically help people's cost of living.
Uh, and of course a lot of what goes into agriculture are, is fertilizers. And fertilizers are driven by, by, uh, by, um, the, their, their sources. The is the natural is, uh, fossil fuels. And so that's been a, that's been pushing costs up and the cost of, of, of, of what's grown on farms up. So you can do those sort of things and that will be, um, that'll be helpful.
So we ticked off energy, we ticked off food, uh. But I, I wanted to say this. People say we're wor they're worried about us going into a recession. I think we've been in a recession. I, I don't, I don't, you know, this, I, I, I think if the average American could tell you how they've been faring in the last four years and, and it, it has not been, [00:44:00] well, they've seen that, you know, their wages have not come up with inflation.
They're looking at buying groceries that are 20, 30% more than before. And, and, you know, the job creation, something like, uh, almost 90% of the jobs that were created or taken in the last, uh, couple years went to people born outside the United States. And then the other part of job creation was in, in government jobs.
And we've got the big piece of the government in our GDP statistics, and I think if you pull government out, you'll find we haven't been growing. We may have been shrinking. And so, uh, you know, we're gonna, and I think Trump's right to say, look, we're gonna have a little short-term pain here, uh, for long-term gain because we're, I think we're really digging ourself out of an economic hole.
We've got this illusion of, of a great economy because the market's been doing stock market's, been doing what it is, but has been, uh, but now we're seeing that come off its tops. And so I, I don't know who feels, who's [00:45:00] feeling richer today. I think most people are feeling a lot poor.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I think it's interesting also when you look at, um, Trump's new immigration policy and, uh, you talked about job growth, 90% going to, um, uh, unnatural
Bill Walton: That, that, that that's a, that's a, I believe that I, that's, I've got a 95% confidence level in that number. Not a hundred percent, but that's, it's pretty close to that.
Marc Beckman : but the fact is that we've seen job creation with regards to individuals who are not citizens of the United States as well as, um, expansion in government jobs. And now you see Trump talking about shrinking the government. We're starting to see layoffs already with Doge and whatnot. And we're also looking at an immigration policy where ICE is coming in and taking a lot of these undocumented people out of the country.
And a lot of those individuals are in areas, um, that, particularly in sectors that particularly see growth during the summer months. Think in terms of farming. I think in terms of construction. So I'm curious [00:46:00] from your perspective, how will that, uh, come to play with regards to those sectors being impacted if we don't have the people to, to execute, right.
If we don't have the people to build, if we don't have the people to farm, what's gonna happen to these massive sectors?
Bill Walton: Well, I think that's why I talk about the trust factor. People who are going to have to trust that, uh, the Trump administration is gonna lead people to the economic promise land. And I think he can with the policies that he's implementing, but it's gonna take time. And I think the job market in particular is going to be very messy.
And there, there're gonna be a lot of dislocation. I mean, I'm in the DC area and we're the people are asking the question, what are we gonna do if a hundred thousand, 150,000 federal workers are are unemployed? Can the private sector absorb them? Well, certainly not in the short run. Uh, so they're either gonna have to move or we're gonna have to have some entrepreneurs build, build businesses.
You're right, we're gonna have [00:47:00] shortages of labor in, in the, uh, in the area of agriculture in the summer. And so I don't think we know. I mean, it, it'll be, uh, I think stay tuned. Uh, but I, I worry that when we go into the 2026 midterms that a lot of this churn and pain in the job market might, uh, might affect, uh, the Republicans chances to keep their majorities.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I think on that front, Trump needs to do two things and, and uh, uh, to really protect those, let's say, um, congress people who are in, uh, purple states, I think if he can lock in peace with regards to Ukraine, Russia, that's a big win for him. And those people who are in purple states can talk to peace, right?
Like that's a win. And on the second side, we're hovering around it. But if we could balance the, the budget, if Trump could be literally the first president since Clinton to come in and say like, look, we have either a, a balanced budget or a plan in place now that is, will give us a balanced [00:48:00] budget that's sustainable.
I think that's the second win. And a lot of those Congress people leading into the midterms can have a certain amount of security in speaking to the voters within their districts and their constituency, uh, to, to, to win those elections.
Bill Walton: Well, and I, you know, the other thing is the, the amount of cuts, we're talking about trillions of dollars. Well, we're really talking about trying to bring government back, government spending back to where it was, uh, five years ago in 2019 before the pandemic. And, you know, that's imminently achievable if you're willing to get off the idea that once we've allocated, um, some federal dollars, they're, they're embedded in the budget forever.
Um, I know we're trying to roll back that thinking. And so I think the dollars are available to actually cut the budget, uh, uh, significantly. The, the problem is that Trump can want to do it, but he's gotta get it through Congress and every congressman and senator. Sees the budget as, as, as pork coming back to [00:49:00] their, uh, to their states.
And so, you know, you want to look at what happened with ethanol. Um, all of a sudden the, the Iowa Corn Belt or the Midwest Corn Belt became big, um, advocates of ethanol because that was, they were selling a lot of, of the inputs for that. And now you can't really get rid of it, even though we now know it's terrible for automobiles.
And it's, it's less, it's, it's more environmentally damaging than, uh, fossil fuels. But nevertheless, it's got a built in constituency.
Marc Beckman : So, Bill, where do you see, where are you, which sectors are you optimistic, um, for growth in the short term? Where, where do you, uh, see some, some, uh, sunlight.
Bill Walton: Well, I think, you know, healthcare is gonna be a, I think we need new business models in healthcare, but I think in terms of startups and new, new, new ventures, I think healthcare is, is, could be very promising. We're gonna be rethinking our cost structure. What are we spending now 20% of [00:50:00] the GDP and healthcare way too much.
But it doesn't mean they're not gonna be, you know, you can do the macro study and then you can see which individual companies are likely to, uh, um, you know, defeat the incumbents in that area. I think that's, that's promising obviously, uh, artificial intelligence, everything, everything tech related has got a lot of growth and so, you know, and I think just basic industries will be, will be just fine.
So I, you know, my portfolios, I've got an awful lot of large cap multinational dividend paying stocks, and I think if you're an investor, that's a great place to be. I just calculated yesterday that, uh, I'm up 40 basis points this year, where the, what's the market down? Six or 7%. So holding on to some mundane stuff can be a good place for an investor to be, uh, you know, I, you know, you're, you're pretty close to this.
What do you think?
Marc Beckman : Well, actually, I want to [00:51:00] ask you, I can't let you off the hook there. Is it, uh, I mean those numbers are really impressive, obviously. Which, which companies are you invested in? Can you disclose that?
Bill Walton: Well, it's a portfolio. I'm, I'm in the evil pharmaceutical companies. I'm in
Marc Beckman : The
Bill Walton: companies. I'm in, I'm in all the companies that Bobby Kennedy hates
Marc Beckman : there you go.
Bill Walton: and a lot of energy companies. And, you know, the, the companies that were not as sexy as the Magnificent seven. Uh, and so I lag the market during that period, but now, now I'm doing pretty well.
But, you know, they're household names and insurance companies, uh, not so much banks. I don't like the bank's balance sheets. You can't analyze 'em. Um, but, you know, companies that people have heard of and, uh, and, and you know, they're gonna, they're gonna be around. And the other thing is that we've got. One of the unfortunate things in the last 25, 30, 40 years is the, the, the reality is we've got a lot of entrenched incumbents in these, in a lot of [00:52:00] industries and they're, it's hard to, hard to dislodge 'em, but it also means if you're investor and if they're paying dividends, um, they can be a pretty good place to hide.
Marc Beckman : Bill, you know, um, Nelson Mandela's family works with me. They're clients of mine and business partners and his oldest living child. Machi Mandela once said something to me, that's fascinating. She said, if everybody's making money, all the other liberties fall into place. Right? Like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right.
To assemble, dah, dah, dah, dah. Like, you make money, you're happy. Society cooks. It's great. Right? So she, um, mention this to me and, and in hearing you speak today, uh, we'd, I'd be remiss to not get your opinion about the idea of income. Inequality or you know, the class, the where, the way the classes are broken up.
I mean, we've seen to a certain amount like this dissipation of the middle class, and we have, you know, I think a separation now of upper class and lower [00:53:00] class like we've never had before. If the lower class of society is not creating wealth, if they're not secure economically, it disrupts everything else.
Do you think Trump's policies will create, um, more equality or do you think there's a lot of people are screaming, like billionaires are making more money and it's, he's, his policies are just to benefit the upper class. But from your perspective, do you think his new policies or the policies he's talking about enacting will create a more balanced, um, uh, level of, of, uh, income across the country?
Bill Walton: I'm, you know, I'm a, I don't know that I'm a contrarian, but I've got a different take on this and I, what I'm concerned about, we talk about people's consumption and their income and what they're, where they fit into the income ladder. I'm equally concerned with, with the work part of it. What kind of meaningful work can people get?
And I think work is highly related to, uh, to human dignity and human [00:54:00] flourishing. And so when Trump talks about bringing manufacturing back and good jobs, he's really talking about meaningful work. And I think there's a big correlation, strong correlation between. People who have jobs that they find, uh, uh, rewarding and it can be any kind of job as long as they feel like they're contributing.
Um, you gotta, you've got happier people regardless of how much money they're making. And I, I think the underlying, and I and Bob Lighthizer talked about this, we've hollowed out a lot of work and I think if we start bringing back higher, higher content jobs, and I think it's gonna happen naturally 'cause people are gonna have to, to know that, know a lot more technology than they did, I think I'd rather press on those policy buttons and, uh, than necessarily worry about income distribution.
I think that if we focus on work, creating the right kind of jobs, uh, the income is gonna be there.
Marc Beckman : I think that's really actually a very astute point from you. Uh, the idea [00:55:00] of individual productivity, right? People feel good. There's a psychology to it. If you're out and you're productive, you're working, um, you feel better about yourself and as a result, your confidence is higher and you could create more, and the people around you are happier as well.
I think that's a really interesting, um, approach. Bill, I, I agree with you. I think that's a very
Bill Walton: Well, you know, you, you think about it, the left really at every step, demonizes work and started with, uh, Karl Marx, who never worked a day in his life. He was supported by Engels, never stepped foot in a factory, although he wanted to liberate the employ, liberate the labor. Um, you know, the, they've been demonizing work forever and I think, I think championing good work and good jobs, um, that, that creates a very different, very positive, um, societal and, and community effect that, uh, I think we ought to be.
Uh, I think we ought to strive for that more than worrying about income inequality.
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I think that's a great point. I really, I [00:56:00] really do. So Bill, you've given me a tremendous amount of your time and super valuable insight. Is there anything else in these topics that we're covering today that you, you'd like to address? Or
Bill Walton: I wanna hear from you. I've read some of your book, your book on artificial intelligence, which I, I highly commend. I didn't get through all of it, but I did get through your conclusion and everybody's concerned about where artificial intelligence is going and how we do, we need to be concerned about reigning it in.
You're an optimist and I, I, I listen reading your arguments and listening to you. I can, I can, I can. I think you're probably right. But, uh, where do you see the risks and, uh, and the potential with ai?
Marc Beckman : Yeah, I think the biggest risk, thank you for asking. I appreciate that. You just hijacked my show. Um,
Bill Walton: Well, I've got my average show. I'm, I'm used to doing that.
Marc Beckman : I love you, Bill
Bill Walton: all these questions is something I don't normally do.
Marc Beckman : Well, I, [00:57:00] I gotta tell you, I, I think the, the single biggest risk is people. I believe that artificial intelligence is a tool. I think Steve Jobs once said that a computer for an individual is like a bicycle. If you can imagine how a computer accelerated the individual's, um, growth and productivity like a bicycle would speed it up.
I believe that artificial intelligence is like a rocket ship, but it's a tool and it becomes dangerous if the people don't treat it responsibly. I think we need to look at it now during this training period as, uh, similar to the way we, um, take care of our children in the next generation. We need to be careful.
We need to train it appropriately. Um, but ultimately it's the individual that will weaponize ai. AI is not going to come in and take over. Algebra is not gonna kill you and your family. It's not gonna kill me and my family. Right. It's gonna be the people. And we see that [00:58:00] with weapons and tools and other things.
And it's interesting, I get into the conversation on, on this show, uh, quite a bit like the CEO of Xtend Drones, incredible company. Um, he highlights the fact that his, with ai, his company will save lives. And he's doing a lot of search and rescue missions all over the world now. And of course, they have the ability to attack too.
In fact, he has contracts with the Department of Defense. However, at the end of the day, there are bad actors and bad actors will use tools to hurt people. And that's what I think is the biggest risk. It's the
Bill Walton: What do you see about the race between the US and China? We're talking about bad actors. I mean, and, and AI is programmed by people, and people have values and, you know, they can, they can just move, move people's perceptions one way or another. How, how would a, I, I can't, I really don't understand how an AI war would be fought China versus the United States.
I don't know [00:59:00] what the battlefield would be.
Marc Beckman : Well, there are two issues, right? There's the psychological and educational piece, and then there's the physical war. Okay? We've been talking about AI wars, specifically US versus China here on the show for over a year now, and it's real. A year ago or a month ago even, I would've said to you, Bill, that we're about two years.
Um, advanced the head of China as it relates to research and development. But with DeepSeek coming into the marketplace, it shows us we're neck and neck. We are tied. So what does that mean as it relates to hardware? Um, the evolution of warfare of war machines, I believe we're going to see a fundamental change, a rebalancing, I call it the post nuclear period where AI is going to fuel different types of weapons from drones and drone swarms to autonomous vehicles like jet fighters, um, vehicles that will be in the [01:00:00] oceans and the seas.
Navy, the navy, the nature of the Navy will change. And what happens there is smaller nations that don't have the capabilities like America are going to leverage those efficiencies of time and money to come after us. So you'll see these rogue nations, these terrorist nations, leveraging artificial intelligence with physical weapons that are gonna hurt us.
And I understand that Pete Hegseth is already making serious commitments with regards to strategy as well as acquisition of, uh, weapons that are fueled by ai. So we could fight off those smaller players who are gonna pop up. There's no doubt about it. Think about America as a tanker and these rogue nation states that could use AI for very little money.
Um, to, to set off swarms of drones and beyond. Think about what we just saw with like Iran attacking, um, uh, Israel regularly, or, um, the use of drones in Ukraine-Russia. We're gonna see that all over the place, but we need to, uh, be prepared to [01:01:00] fight these speedboats effectively, these nations that are gonna go quicker on the intellectual side.
Um, it's an issue if you, going back to DeepSeek, like DeepSeek has been trained, um, in a way that is really proin. It's as if Confucius trained it. So if you ask DeepSeek questions, um, about the history of China, Xi Jinping, Tianmen Square, and beyond, it's answering in a way that Western people don't understand.
Like, it, it, it's like erased the fact that Uyghurs are slaves from its training model. So now think in terms of who's, who's using that training model. So 2 million people in the United States downloaded DeepSeek. Immediately when it became available, because it was free. Who's getting it? Young people.
Gen Z, millennials, the next generation. And if they're using DeepSeeks training, educate to educate themselves about the world and world history, that could be problematic too. It [01:02:00] could, you know, create a, you know, you laugh about Marx and Angles, but it could create a mindset of communism. So I think the, the war is real.
It's not just an economic war. I think there's a physical piece of it as well as a mental piece of it. And we need to, we need to, we need to win that war Bill.
Bill Walton: Well, you know, it's funny because both ChatGPT and Claude, uh, uh, are strongly biased on the left. And they, you ask 'em about economic growth and they give you the Keynesian playbook. It's like written by, uh, you know, by the, by the FDR administration that talks about social programs and, and government stimulus, stimulus and that sort of thing.
But the fun thing about that is you can say to it. Come on. Really. We know that's never really worked. Tell me about what happens if you cut taxes and if you do this and you, I, I give it a supply side, uh, uh, prompting and it, it'll come back with a good analysis so it's in there, but you've gotta, you've gotta dig it out.
I don't, I don't think DeepSeek would, uh, would [01:03:00] do that for you.
Marc Beckman : No, DeepSeek is good though. But you know, without a doubt, like AI right now, 10% of the popula population is using AI for search purposes and, um, it's better at the end of the day. You talk about perplexity, you talk about ChatGPT, the experience is far superior than Google today. Right?
Bill Walton: I don't use Google. I don't use Google anymore to, to search. I, I use one of the, uh, one of the AI machines.
Yeah, it's much better. It's far superior. There's no advertising. You don't have to go digging in links. You get the, in a matter of seconds, you get the, the, uh, question. You're, you're a text prompt answered in a way that is cogent. You have the reasoning there now. It's incredible. So, Bill, I'm not gonna let you hijack my show anymore. I gotta end the show with one. There's, so every guest comes on, I give a leading question that starts with the name of the show, some Future Day, which is inspired by a James Joyce thing. And then I allow for my guests to finish [01:04:00] Bill Walton. Are you game?
Oh, I'm definitely game. What, uh, where do you want me to go with this?
Marc Beckman : Okay. So in some future day, artificial intelligence will change America's economic model by.
Bill Walton: Well, it'll change our economic model by how, what, what people work at. And I mentioned before, I think, uh, rewarding jobs are a great place to start. When we think about economic policy, which is really new, we haven't really thought about that. Uh, I think that productivity growth could be. Enormous. We could be looking at four or five, six, 7%.
And so we're gonna see a lot more, um, ec real economic growth through, through ai. And I, I think the, uh, the, you know, the kind of innovations which AI is gonna help us make will create industries and, and, and, and jobs that we've never even, we can't even conceive now. It's like 10 years ago you couldn't [01:05:00] think about influencers as being an actual career.
Now it's, now it's definitely that. Uh, so I'm basically optimistic and I don't really worry about ai, the, the, the science fiction scenario where it, it turns against us. I, I, I think one of the things that's happening I've, in AI is it's not just one group that's creating it. It's many, many, many, many people.
And they're very, it's like a marketplace of, uh, of AI machines. And I think out of that, that competition will come, uh, will come a lot of good.
Marc Beckman : Bill Walton, thank you so much for joining me on some future day today. It's really been a pleasure.
Bill Walton: Great fun. Thanks, Marc. This is good. This is good. Next time I'm gonna, I'm gonna interview you. I'll, I'll have you back on and I, I can make you answer all the questions, which would be
Marc Beckman : I would be honored, Bill. I would be honored.
Bill Walton: I.
[01:06:00] [01:07:00]