Some Future Day

Marc Beckman: [00:01:00] Ambassador, it's such an honor to have you join me on some future [00:02:00] day. How are you today?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Everything's great here in Detroit, um, looking forward to the holiday season. Thanksgiving is just around the corner and, of course, we're all going to celebrate Christmas in a different way this year
Marc Beckman: that's for sure. That is for sure. So, tell me a little bit about your background. You are the chairman of one of the most impressive American companies. It's called, the name is Walbridge, but it's not a consumer facing business, so people don't, uh, see it as a household name. And yet, it was founded in Detroit, Michigan, in 1916, and it's one of the largest hotels Contractors in the United States.
So can you tell us a little bit about the company itself and then how you got involved and how you became chairman?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Sure, well, it, um, it has an illustrious history here being in the center of the automotive capital of the world. took advantage of that and have grown to be the largest builder of all kind of automotive facilities [00:03:00] on a global basis. My involvement started basically upon my birth. My father was an employee here.
He was a World War II veteran, shot down over Germany. He was in the Army Air Corps, prisoner of war and came back basically a celebrated hero. And the owner of the company at that time, took my father under his wing and shepherded him, uh, to a point where he eventually allowed my father to buy some stock.
And in 1963, uh, this owner passed away. my father the opportunity to buy the balance of the firm and by 1970, uh, my father was 100 percent owner. And that, uh, corresponded with me graduating from Uh, from school, I'm a graduate civil engineer and the apple of my father's eye, if you will, and uh, it was always planned for me by him to come into the firm, uh, which I've always been internally [00:04:00] grateful for.
Uh, and then from that point forward, he, uh, allowed me to quickly, uh, assume control. By the time I was twenty eight years old, I was the chief operating officer, uh, he ended up selling. The business, to me, over the ensuing 20 years, and by 1993, I was CEO, and the majority shareholder. Throughout the entire time, throughout that entire 50 year, we grew, doubling our revenue every 7 years on average, and basically grew the business from about a 20 million a year revenue business in 1970, to I think this year we'll do about 6.5 billion dollars in new construction. And so that's basically been the history. I will point out that it wasn't done by me. We have an incredible team of people and you can't get anything done in life today unless you have a culture of fairness, opportunity, if you're innovative and [00:05:00] agile to move forward. And so that's the history in a nutshell.
Marc Beckman: But leadership and vision matters. Like I realize you have a strong team and I acknowledge that most organizations that are driving revenue above 6 billion annually. have an incredible infrastructure, um, but what's your tip if you're going to give our viewers a, um, a tip as to if they want to be an effective leader, if they want to inspire the team below them and align everybody with one vision so that you could hit that double, you know, what did you say, double digit growth every seven years?
I mean that's an astronomical figure. How do you inspire your team? How do you keep them focused? What would you tell future leaders?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Well, I think there are several aspects to it, but let's start with this. Uh, every company needs a purpose. And that purpose has to be clearly articulated to everybody. Everybody in the organization has to understand the purpose. [00:06:00] The second thing is, it's all about talent and people today. And you have to create a culture, a atmosphere, Uh, for people, uh, for them to progress, to be the best that they can possibly be and you have to encourage them every single day to be that.
And then finally, you need to have processes. Uh, the processes that the building, the business has have to be up to date, uh, they have to be innovative and they have to change as your revenue and your customer and the world changes and of course we've used and adopted technology in a very, very big way.
the underlying part of all that is what I would call the culture of the company, the core values. And we in the, let's see, the 80s, had the opportunity to begin to work for the Japanese auto companies as they were moving their manufacturing facilities from Japan to the United States. [00:07:00] They encouraged us and asked us questions that our domestic customers never did.
And so we created a set of core values that became the foundation of our company. And these core values are so important to, and they've not changed at all since we started. And so let me just repeat a couple of these to you, okay, if you
Marc Beckman: Please.
John Rakolta, Jr.: they'll be very, very instructive. Um, so there's like seven of them.
The first one is, uh, think, demand, and deliver safety in all aspects of our business. Uh, we have a very dangerous business and a person never comes to work that somehow they're going to be injured or worse, die before they get home with their loved ones and their family and dinner. So safety is our absolute number one core value.
The second is to serve our customers. Our customers are the most important thing that we have. Uh, and without a customer we don't have any [00:08:00] businesses, and so we have to listen very, very carefully to our customers and what they stand for and understand and, uh, and, and produce added value to them. And this concept of added value is incredibly important to our customer and, and to what we deliver to them.
Another one is embracing change. You know, I talk a lot about how we are going through this massive change in our society today. And if you don't change on a daily basis, it's very, very hard to stay competitive. And so that change produces a lot of fear in everybody. How does that fear, uh, how does that change affect me?
And so we embrace change and try to show our commitment. Our employees and our customers, how change can value, uh, added value to them and what role they play in this change. Another one is relentlessly pursue success through, um, a [00:09:00] commitment to teamwork. Um, we have a very complex business and there's no one person that's more important than the next.
And so, operating as a team, is essential to delivering world class services. Another one is to build trust and loyalty through uncompromising honesty and integrity. Nobody likes to be lied to. Nobody likes to be deceived. People have to take responsibility for both their successes and their failures. You have to admit those.
And when you do all those kind of things, you're able to begin to fulfill some of these other core values that we have. Another one is providing opportunity to all of our employees so they can be better, they can reach the best of themselves, so their lives can improve and the lives of their children and future generations.
then finally, we believe that we have a responsibility to more than just the shareholders of the company. [00:10:00] And this, this concept we, we developed, um, uh, 40 years ago knowing that if we were going to be successful, we had to change from being a company that was driven for the benefit of the shareholder to a company that benefited all the stakeholders.
And we then identified stakeholder groups and who are these stakeholders, who are, who would they be? And of course, the first one's a customer. And then you have your employee, where all your talent resides. You have your suppliers and your subcontractors. Yes, you have the shareholders, they're very, very important.
You have the environment, and you have to be good stewards of the environment. And then finally, the community at large. You have to benefit, the community has to benefit as a result of your being. And so we're very, very involved in all the communities that we do business with. So when you put this whole package together have what I believe to be the main foundation to [00:11:00] be able to implement we talked about earlier, and that was purpose, people, and processes.
Marc Beckman: That's really interesting. I appreciate you sharing your corporate core values. What comes to mind though is, um, you know, at the helm with such a big organization, your work ethic is probably a strong underpinning to carry those core values through the entire organization and to achieve, achieve your mission to drive that, you know, six plus six billion dollar revenue threshold.
What's your personal, what's your personal work ethic like?
John Rakolta, Jr.: It's simple. You have to show up. we don't have a work at home. At all, I mean, can you imagine how you build a factory or a data center working from home? You have to be present. And we decided when work at home became somewhat popular, a saying in our company, if you want a job, you can work at home, if you want a career, you have to come [00:12:00] in.
that's the underlying element, and that's you have to show up. You can't win, you can't compete, unless you show up. Uh, that's most important, but then also, you know, the construction industry is an early morning kind of a business, I mean, I'm up every morning at 5. 30, I'm in the office by 7, and, uh, once you begin to set that kind of expectation, you begin to attract people who are the same as you, uh, who have strong work ethics, and, uh, and so it, it's more of a expectation.
And it's a demonstration, you walk the walk, and you talk the talk, and walking that walk is the most important thing of all.
Marc Beckman: How much do you love what you do? It seems like, um, your passion is true. It doesn't look like this is a J O B. This is who you are. It defines who you are. How much, how much, um, love do you have? How much gratitude do you have that this is what you get to wake up every day at five in the [00:13:00] morning before the sun rises to do, to do this?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Um, it's not a job to me, it's a application. a career. I don't see it as being work. Um, I love every aspect of it, especially the people part. Uh, engaging with them. Uh, I also love the idea of intellectual tension. I believe that intellectual tension, when we're pressed defend or we're pressed to innovate, uh, there's a certain intellectual tension that developed on that and how you handle that professionally is so important to proving to others that they have the space, they have the rope in order to experiment to a certain degree.
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
John Rakolta, Jr.: And to, critique. Uh, we always think only the best of ourselves. It's hard to critique yourself. And so you have to be able to take critique. And, you know, there's a [00:14:00] special way of giving criticism, especially professional criticism. I always talk about the Southern Sandwich, because the people from the South have always been so polite, but yet they're terrific business people, and so how do they deliver this critique?
And, uh, one guy told me once, he said, we have to use the Southern Sandwich. I said, well, what's the Southern Sandwich? Well, the meat of the, of the, of the, of the debate, or the meat of the critique, think of it as that, but you have to surround it with really a good tasting bread. And so make sure you always start with telling somebody how much you appreciate them, what a good job they're doing.
Then you can get into the heart of the matter and say, gee, you know, what do you think about doing this a little bit better? And then you always end up closing with something very, very positive, and that's something that we try to do within our company. Because we say that in construction. What we're really doing is solving 10, 000 problems that crop up during a job.
Marc Beckman: Well, that's certainly impressive. I love the concept of a Southern sandwich. I will be applying [00:15:00] that to my own business today. Um, so thank you for that. Um, you know, your, your, uh, career is obviously super impressive, even beyond your business acumen. Um, and, and as people know, you. Uh, were the United States Ambassador to the United Arab Emirates, to the UAE.
Um, in fact, I think that President Trump gave you a National Security Medal, um, uh, as a result of the services that you provided for our nation, which is impressive. How did you come about becoming, um, the United States Ambassador to the UAE? Um, in a particular, uh, interesting time period, uh, the time period when the Abraham Accords were created.
John Rakolta, Jr.: Well, I, um, I'd always wanted to serve in government. Uh, I had always put that as a goal of mine and, uh, when President, uh, Trump ran in 2016, I had, uh, the opportunity to meet with him as, uh, he asked me to [00:16:00] come on his team and sort of handle what was happening here in Michigan. And I had this very, um, what I would call monumental meeting with him.
I had never met him before, didn't know what he was like. And on July 12th of 19, uh, 2016, he and I met one on one in New York City and had a incredible conversation. was looking at how he could bring blue collar jobs from, uh, Mexico back to the United States, especially blue collar jobs and especially auto jobs.
Uh, my company, uh, is one of the largest builders of those auto plants in, in Mexico, and I went to see him about what he could do, uh, to change the dynamics. And I gave him three recommendations, uh, they were one, uh, you, we need to better understand NAFTA and it needs to be renegotiated. I said the regulations, uh, in order to build plants here in the United States were, were, uh, so overwhelming and so time [00:17:00] consuming.
that they delayed projects beyond any reasonable frame. And then three, I said the blue collar UAW worker was his best friend. They knew what was going on, and this fit in with President Trump's whole mantra, his whole message to America that we need to take care of the working class. so we had a really good meeting, and I think, and you'll have to ask him this, At that point in time, you probably saw some potential in me.
we went on and we won. And, uh, they then offered me the opportunity to serve as the ambassador to the UAE.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, that's very interesting. I've spent some time personally in, in Dubai, in Abu Dhabi. I actually structured a deal, the deal on behalf of Oscar de la Renta, um, for free, seven freestanding stores in that region, as well as wholesale distribution. So, I'm fairly familiar with the lay of the land. I think my work there [00:18:00] was a little earlier than, you know,
So, you know, for, for my audience, I just want to like, highlight, um, what the Abraham Accords are for a second. Um, they could be assessed in several ways. You could look at the Abraham Accords positively impacting economic cooperation between the participants. diplomatic relations, cultural exchanges, and regional stability.
And you played a role, um, in what I think stands out as probably the most effective Abraham Accord agreement in terms of short term, immediate benefits to the region. That was between Israel and, and the UAE, obviously, and, and from an economic impact perspective. Um, you've seen, we've seen tangible economic outcome already through, uh, direct flights between the nations, tourism blossoming, uh, business partnerships, which I think is the [00:19:00] cornerstone to it all, and tech and health and finance, uh, diplomatic and cultural exchanges with regards to interfaith dialogues, which has been really surprising and eye opening to me.
And then strategic governmental cooperation, um, increase in security and intelligence sharing. Direct counterbalance to regional threats, obviously, such as Iran, um, how did the Abraham Accords, the concept of putting these peace treaties with, uh, com with countries in the Middle East and Israel in place, how did, how did that come about originally?
John Rakolta, Jr.: So, I think you have to take a step back and think about this in broader terms to begin with. And I think at that point in time, you'll see how this all comes together. First, every person in the world wants three big things. They want safety, security. Uh, they want to be able to go home at night and feel that, uh, they're safe.
second thing they want is, uh, health [00:20:00] care and food. Uh, the third thing they want is opportunity. Opportunity to create a better life for them and their children. And the Middle East has all this potential, million people, smart, artistic thoughtful. So what's wrong? You need to bring these three things together.
So now when you take a look at how they all came about to achieve basically that goal, now see both Israel and the UAE fearing Iran. So Iran was a central, central role in all of this. That's one. Two, the UAE was going through a metamorphosis, if you will, about what their economy and their society would look like 50 years henceforth.
And they told me that they looked around and they said what countries we like to emulate as we develop our society [00:21:00] and they picked two. Uh, and it was very interesting to me, this is 2019, the two they picked was Singapore and Israel. Singapore for their financial acumen and the fact that they were the center, banking center of Southeast Asia.
Israel for a different reason. Israel because here is a country. That had no natural resources, had enemies completely surrounding it, had no minerals, no water, no oil. And how was this country able to become not only the start up nation, but the scale up nation? They were fascinated by it. And the third element was that they saw that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all had the same father, Abraham.
they ask themselves, why aren't we closer? So we have all of these factors coming together. And the UAE and Israel had a relationship well [00:22:00] before 2019. It was informal. It was only at the leadership level, but the UAE asked themselves this question. Why are we at odds with Israel? We have never had a war with them.
have no land disputes. And, uh, and we all have the same father of our religion. How can we become closer? And then you add that in with the brilliance of President Trump and Jared Kushner, who saw this opportunity and said, look, we have this unique chance in order to bring these countries together and we have to figure out a way to begin a peace process.
And Jared Kushner put an unbelievable peace prospect, peace. A proposal on the table called, uh, Prosperity, Peace for Prosperity, the Palestinians rejected it. Out of hand. They wouldn't even talk about it. And at that point in time, the leadership in the, in the Arab world began to think differently. do we [00:23:00] need peace with the Palestinians in order to move the region forward?
And in the case of the UAE, the leader had the courage to say, we don't need it. We need to do one more thing, and that's to stop annexation. And if we could get all these things together, and all these points of view that I've just pointed to, we can create something, and that was the beginning of the negotiations of the Abraham Accords.
It
Marc Beckman: that's,
John Rakolta, Jr.: one person, but if you wanted to pick who really pushed this in the background, it was the leadership of the UAE, and it was the White House through Jared Kushner.
Marc Beckman: So, so when you talk about that, it's interesting, if I understand your comment correctly, are you saying that Kushner first went to the Palestinians to try to put together a peace deal and they couldn't get together so he reverted back and that's where these other nations and the Abraham Accords came into play?
He moved away from speaking about peace with the Palestinians and figured it would be more effective if he creates, um, normalized, normalized [00:24:00] relationships between Israel and the participants in the Abraham Accords?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. He put forth a proposal. I think it was in January of 2019, maybe it was 2020, it was rejected out of hand. The UAE went to the announcement, the ambassador of the UAE went to the White House when they announced this, uh, prosperity and peace, and, uh, the Palestinians rejected it out of hand, would not even talk about it.
And, uh, they tried to, you know, encourage them to engage. Look, you're not going to have peace there unless the Palestinians and the Israelis sit across from each other and begin to negotiate what the future would look like. And they're so far off from doing that. And then, of course, we now have October 7th, which has completely changed the dynamics of the region for the next 20, 30 years.
Marc Beckman: So let's go back to those early [00:25:00] conversations pre Abraham Accords. You used the words, I love the term of art actually, intellectual tensions, right? Um, as it relates to your own organization, but what were the intellectual tensions That surfaced during the early conversations, either between the White House and Palestine that you're aware of, the Palestinians that you're aware of, or alternatively, the early, um, intellectual tensions, pre Abraham Accords between Israel and the UAE.
John Rakolta, Jr.: So, I wasn't involved in the Palestinian discussions at all. I Yeah. to the UAE and that's where I was stationed. upon my arrival there, uh, three, three big problems, uh, showed up. One, the United States was, uh, had promised to participate in, uh, what we would call Expo Dubai 2020, which is this gigantic World's Fair.
Uh, the Emiratis had spent billions of dollars preparing for it. They wanted every country in the world to participate, and as it turned [00:26:00] out, all but six did participate. And the United States, leading up to that, promised that we would have a massive presence in a pavilion. Unfortunately, Congress able to make an appropriation.
And my first duty was to go out there and to tell the Emiratis, I'm sorry, we're not going to be there, and they were shocked. They had gone through all this effort and all of a sudden we're one year out and now we're telling them that we're not going to participate. Just think of States not showing up for the Olympics.
That would have been the impact on
Marc Beckman: It's gotta be a brutal, it's gotta be brutal news to deliver on your side as
ambassador.
John Rakolta, Jr.: was. But before Yeah. Jared Kushner said to me, do whatever you can, but we need to fix this. This is very, very important. If we don't show up. going to say something to the Emiratis about, about our relationship and about our strategic tie. So I get out there and I go visit [00:27:00] the Emiratis and I tell them.
And they're shocked, uh, beyond belief. You know, they had been told for years that we were coming and now this new ambassador shows up uh, he says we're not coming, what's up? And they say, they, they, we all sit there sort of stunned for a moment, then they look at me and said, uh. What should we do? And I said back to them, father told me when I was a young boy, never spend other people's money.
And they looked at me in a very quizzical way, not really knowing what I might be saying. And what I was saying is, I can't answer this question for you. You have to answer this for yourself. And they went back and they thought about it for a while and ultimately came back and offered us, offered the United States a gift of 60 million so that we could participate. Now, it wasn't easy to get that approved through [00:28:00] the State Department. There were many, many people who thought it would have been the wrong thing to take that money. But if you look at the bigger picture and the strategic nature of our relationship, we had to participate. there wasn't any other way of getting the money, and administration, and I have to give Secretary of State Pompeo, that's how high up we had to go, to get approval.
So that was the first thing that we got solved. The second thing was, before I actually went out to post, I had the privilege of meeting with the President. And this is where I really, I really bonded with him and really saw him as a, the true leader that he is. And I sat in the Oval Office and he looked at me and he asked me two questions.
He said to me, what are your priorities, personal priorities? Now, there are all kinds of priorities in the federal government. There's, there are the National Security Council's priorities. There's the State Department's priorities. There are the Embassy's own priorities. And they're all articulated and they're written [00:29:00] and you, you have them in a little card.
So now the President's asking me, what's my priorities being the Ambassador? And I said, you know, I think it would be a good idea If I went out there and listened to what the Emiratis have to say, let me go on a listening tour for 30, 60 days and I'll come back and I'll tell you. He said, great, great. Then he asked me what I thought was the most important question I've ever been asked in my entire life other than when the minister asked me if I wanted to take the hand of my wife and marry her for time and eternity.
And he looked at me and he said, how can I help you? Just imagine how powerful that is. For the President of the United States of America to be sitting in front of you, looking you in the eye, and asking you that question. was just an awesome, awesome moment, and I knew exactly what I had to ask for. And I said, you know, I've been, and I haven't, I haven't gone yet, but I have been going through these briefings here in the State Department, the Defense Department, and [00:30:00] all the agencies, and there's this tension about providing the Emiratis with F 35 weapons programs.
Uh, there's half the government that thinks we should, the other half doesn't think we should, and it's supposedly John Bolton had offered it to them. There's all this confusion, and you can really clear the air. And he looked at me, and there were a bunch of people in the room, and I don't think everybody was happy that I asked the question, but I did, I felt it was important.
And he looked at me, and he said, make Help the Ambassador Make It Happen. I'll never forget those words my entire life. Help the Ambassador Make It Happen. And that launched me into a 15 month odyssey, journey, incredible opportunity to build a relationship with the Emiratis like we had never had before.
And I went out there, had this listening tour, and heard three things. [00:31:00] One. they felt that the relationship with the United States was both stale and stagnant.
we had reached some kind of a pinnacle. They had supported us in all of our adventures and our wars with blood and with money, uh, and with support.
And they felt that we had come to a point where, uh, we had reached a plateau. And we could get into all of that if you care to what are the specifics. The second thing they said is, you know, our entire military is built On defense material, weaponry, airplanes. from the United States, and we're having a very, very hard time replenishing, uh, the ordinances and the weapons that we've used on your behalf.
that was the second big thing, and the
Marc Beckman: Interesting.
John Rakolta, Jr.: uh, thing is that we needed to build out our trade relationship in a, in a much bigger, bigger way. So everywhere I went, this is what I heard from the ruler right from the very beginning and from the Crown, Crown Prince, but then I [00:32:00] went through the ministers, I heard the same thing.
From every minister that I went to, it almost was as if they were speaking from the same script. I went back to the White House at Christmastime of 2019, and I reported to the National Security Advisor, Robert O'Brien, that our relationship was stale and stagnant. And we had to find a new way to be able to communicate with them, that the old way wasn't working.
And he looked at me and he said, The President has authorized for me to give you Uh, the authority to conduct a strategic dialogue. Now, we only do this with our best of allies, and it's a really a deep, deep look into the relationship. And we had what we call a universe of issues with the UAE. And, of course, we have it with every country.
You know, there's always little tensions here and there. And the strategic dialogue was an attempt to try to resolve many of those issues. Universe of Issue problems. And we conducted that and [00:33:00] if there was a good outcome of COVID, because then COVID hit, and everything shut down, so we all had a lot of time on our hands, and the Emiratis and the Americans used that time to build out the Strategic Dialogue from January of 2020 until June of 2022.
And that Strategic Dialogue, what I always say, was the precursor. now building this relationship with the UAE to a point where they felt and confident in us in order to be able to proceed with the Abraham Accords, which was in about June, being talked about to the Strategic Dialogue.
Now that was launched in Washington and General Correa, who worked on the National Security Council, who I was very close to. Uh, the Emirati leadership, because he had served as a defense attache there for many years, and Jared Kushner and Ari Berkowitz [00:34:00] and Robert O'Brien all began this journey to bring the Abraham Accords to fruition.
And if you read the Abraham Accords, as you well know, it's an aspirational statement. You sort of went through the, um, went through the, um, uh, what it stood for, but the abbreviated text. It's only a text on a piece of paper, 247 words signed by ultimately all the countries. United States is not a party to the Abraham Accords.
Our president was a witness to the Abraham Accords. And the Abraham Accords, and let me just read you something very quickly. It said,
Marc Beckman: Please.
John Rakolta, Jr.: recognize the importance of maintaining and strengthening peace in the Middle East and around the world based on a mutual understanding of coexistence.
As well as respect for human dignity and freedom, including religious freedom. We encourage efforts to promote interfaith and [00:35:00] intercultural dialogue to advance culture of peace amongst three Abrahamic religions and all humanity. We believe that the best way to address challenges is through cooperation and dialogue and that developing friendly relations among states.
Advances the interest of lasting peace in the Middle East and around the world. That's abbreviated, 100 word version of something that's about 300 words. But when you really think about that, there isn't anything, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. It's changing the mindset of all people. And this is the brilliance of the Abraham Accords.
It's a promise to have a better life through peace and prosperity as opposed to terror and war. And that's where the courage came from both our country willing to do what we could to encourage the Emiratis and the Israelis to sign up, and they did. And they [00:36:00] deserve preponderance of the credit for doing that, because it took a lot of courage.
There are a lot of forces out there that didn't want this to happen.
Marc Beckman: Ambassador, which other countries, um, became parties to the Abraham Accords?
John Rakolta, Jr.: So To begin with it was only the UAE. the negotiations and the discussions were all done in secret. But on August, I think it was 12th or 13th, President Trump announced it to the world, with the official signing to take place on September 15th of 2020. In the ensuing one month, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan all said, we want to be part of this.
the real courage was by the UAEN, uh, his highness, uh, Moham, Shaikh Zed. Uh, he was the one person who said, we have to do this, and I'm gonna be the courageous leader to step up.
Marc Beckman: What was the risk [00:37:00] to, um, the, the UAE at that point? What, what were they fearful of as far as perhaps existential threats from the region, um, or, or beyond?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Well, right away the Arab League, uh, and many countries in the Arab League try to gather the Arab League together to condemn, uh, the UAE. Uh, and uh, that didn't happen. I mean, there were a few countries that tried really hard to conduct this effort, but it fizzled out because everyone knew. Secondly, what's important to understand is the role that Saudi Arabia played behind the scenes.
to be able to have tourism, for instance, the airlines between the United Arab Emirates and Israel had to fly over Saudi Arabia. There was no other way of getting there. It's almost entirely over Saudi Arabia. So we needed to have flyover rights already in advance agreed to. And so Saudi Arabia was approached by the United States and said, We're going to do this, but we need your help.
And [00:38:00] of course we got the flyover rights for Israel and the UAE. so Arabia played a good role. They've signaled, Yes, go ahead and do this. We can't join. But maybe someday we'll be able to. Maybe this will be a catalyst of a different Middle East. Um, and so, um, uh, the other threat was, of course, Iran.
And Iran is very, very, was very, very unhappy with it because it aligned it, aligned, uh, uh, the UAE more closely to Israel. And, uh, Israel is the mortal enemy of, uh, of Iran right now.
Marc Beckman: So do you think Saudi Arabia will ever join? I know that right before October 7th it sounded, it was my understanding, um, that the Biden administration was actually bringing Saudi Arabia to the table and it looked like they were going to participate in the Abraham Accords. Do you think it's feasible now for them ever to participate?
John Rakolta, Jr.: I think the word ever, take the word ever out of the equation. Because yes, I do believe that [00:39:00] there is an opportunity. We believe that at the end of the Trump administration, in the month of January of 2021, just before Inauguration Day, that had we won, it would have only been a matter of months before Saudi Arabia would have come on board.
They had signaled to us by giving flyer of rights that they approved of the Abraham Accords. And unfortunately, for whatever reason, they The Biden administration decided to turn their back on the Abraham Accords. The press secretary, Jan Pacek, actually announced in May of 2021 that the Abraham Accords were dead on arrival.
Uh, and, uh, there were rumors that people in the State Department were, are not allowed to utter the words Abraham Accords. I think the Biden administration is trying to distance themselves from the Trump administration, and this is one of the casualties. was a bad strategy, it was a bad decision, because about a year and a half later, President Biden ultimately went over [00:40:00] with hat in hand to Saudi Arabia to try to rekindle the relationship with them.
It had really gotten to a point where they weren't even talking to each other. think that the Biden administration has made a lot of progress between then and today. But, of course, up came October 7th, and that killed all opportunity for any future countries to come into the Abraham Accords until October 7th.
And the ramifications of what happened afterward were totally played out. I can't speak on behalf of those other countries, but if I were in this new administration, I would endeavor very, very strongly everybody. to see how quickly we, and what were the conditions of bringing the Abraham Accords back on the table for countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Oman and other Arab countries that I think desperately want to join because they all know war is devastating, [00:41:00] it's expensive, has a huge toll, And peace and prosperity is the only way that the world can move forward and the vast majority of the people who live in these countries, this is what they want.
Marc Beckman: So it's, it's interesting because the inspirational words that you took the time to read surrounding the Abraham Accords, um, really just feels like what it's, what human humans need. It's good for humanity. You spoke about, um, tolerance and, and inclusivity and growth and prosperity. So when, when the Trump administration.
Um, uh, left office and the Biden administration entered. Are you saying that the Biden administration effectively killed the deal because of political purposes? Killed the deal with Saudi Arabia because of political purposes?
John Rakolta, Jr.: I wouldn't put the word political in there. Mm hmm. don't think that they believed in this strategy. Um, uh, the Democrats, John [00:42:00] Kerry and others had always believed that the path of peace went through the Palestinians. The end. The Abraham Accords have said the path to peace does not go through the Palestinian, it goes around the Palestinians and when you begin to see the benefits, hopefully the Palestinians will change their attitude, change their positions and begin to negotiate and take advantage of these peace proposals that have been put forward.
Also, the Trump administration never believed in the JCPOA. which is, uh, Joint Plan of Comprehension for, uh, for Iran. It's the nuclear deal, okay? And that, that, that went against what the Biden administration believed in. They tried to renegotiate again the JCPOA with Iran. And this all sort of played, played into it.
Because Iran is 100 percent opposed to the Abraham Accords. And so, yes, I [00:43:00] think, but, but I think that degree, they began to see the brilliance of the Abraham Accords and well into the administration felt that they needed to put it back on the table and got close to something. Maybe it wasn't exactly the Abraham Accords, but something similar to the Abraham Accords and Hamas thought it was getting way, way too close and needed to do something to disrupt that and October 7th comes along.
Marc Beckman: So you think that, that, um, the Abraham Accords between Israel and Saudi Arabia, um, uh, was one reason, one factor and impetus behind October 7th?
John Rakolta, Jr.: I do, I totally believe that. I don't think it was the only factor,
Marc Beckman: Yeah. Mm
John Rakolta, Jr.: do think it was a factor. You know, look, Hamas's charter basically says the elimination Israel, and so that was another factor. They thought that they had the support of other Arab nations, you know, the Houthis, the [00:44:00] Hezbollah in Iran.
That somehow they'd all come and join in and it would be the end of Israel and obviously they totally miscalculated. I don't think they ever thought it would be the end of them, but, you know, we have what we have today and, um, Abraham Accords, in my view, are the only prospect for bringing peace back.
Marc Beckman: So, it's interesting because I read, and you could verify this for me, but I read that part of the deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel, and I guess the United States was going to be involved also, um, was to provide Saudi Arabia with a civilian nuclear program. So, I wonder, A, is that true? And then if so, how do you think Iran saw that as it relates to, um, a threat to Iran's power in the region?
John Rakolta, Jr.: So you can look at the nuclear power in a more positive light. The UAE. actually has four large nuclear power plants that produce 25 percent of their [00:45:00] electricity. They went online in 2020, and Saudi Arabia wants the same thing. Now, why? Well, number one, um, they're both oil and gas countries, and would like to start to reduce their dependence on that.
And, of course, any gas or oil they don't use themselves, they can sell on the open market. So, the whole commercial aspect Of nuclear power plays a very big deal, but also having the, what we'll call the nascent technology of nuclear and adopting that sort of gives them, in my view, somewhat of a comfort level.
That they're not starting from square one if Iran ultimately, uh, has the bomb. And so all, I think all that comes into play, uh, in very, very, uh, unique and complex circumstances.
Marc Beckman: Interesting time period for sure. Before we move off of the Abraham Accords, I just want to get a better sense of how important is the UAE, our relationship, America's relationship with the UAE. [00:46:00] Um, it seems like it's much more important than most people realize.
John Rakolta, Jr.: Oh, it is, it's very, very important. Uh, the UAE. Uh, uh, when you look at how they are progressing, uh, to become a modern society, it hasn't been just something. It just didn't happen. It didn't turn on a switch overnight. This has been a progress that they have been going on their journey for decades. Um, you know, they've had a relationship with Israel.
Uh, they began to, uh, have more individual rights within their country. In their federal cabinet today of 30 individuals, 10 of them are women. They had the Year of Tolerance in 2019 when I arrived there, which basically the same values as you read in the Abraham Accords They began to build the Abrahamic Family House, which will be a center for study about how Islam and Judaism [00:47:00] And Christianity can all work in greater harmony together for the betterment of mankind.
Uh, they had the Pope come and give Mass to 250, 000 people in Abu Dhabi a couple years before I arrived there. Uh, they adopted the Special Olympics as one of their signature events, um, uh, understanding, uh, the need, uh, to, uh, all humans, including what they call the people of determination. All deserve a chance to be the best that they can be.
Every religion can now set up in the UAE, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholics, Synagogues, Mormons, are all able to worship freely in their country. And when you think about that, that's what every country needs. And so when you ask me how important the UAE is, they are the trend center. They are the spearhead. of the, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, the tip of the spear in order [00:48:00] to begin to move society into a more holistic and peaceful way.
And so I see them as this beacon, this light, that all these other countries have taken. Now there are many, many other, uh, uh, things that they're doing, developing their economy, moving away from oil, adopting high tech and, uh, medical centers, uh, to, to help their people and people of the region, uh, building out their military.
Uh, taking an active role in the United Nations, becoming a nation that's helping many, many other nations with the tremendous wealth that they have. Um, so when you ask me, what is the UAE, how important they are, I think they're vitally important to our country because they are espousing the same values as America does.
Marc Beckman: So when you started telling the, um, the story of you becoming ambassador to the UAE and, and, um, what the needs were and refreshing the relationship, something that you highlighted that I'd like to bring full circle is the F 35s, American F [00:49:00] 35s. So did they ever get them?
John Rakolta, Jr.: They had, we got them the, what they call the LOA, which is called the letter of agreement that they could buy them. they ultimately decided that they didn't need them. Okay?
Marc Beckman: interesting.
John Rakolta, Jr.: so you ask yourself, okay, so what was that all about? And this is just my singular opinion, is that it was an expression of the United States that you are one of the best strategic partners that we have.
We trust you. We're willing to give you a weapons system that only a handful of other countries have. This weapons system is so powerful. It is so secret that we have to make sure that our partners do not leak any of this technology to our adversaries like China or Russia. And so for us to say that to the UAE spoke volumes.
Absolute volumes. And at the end of the day, they said, you know, the warfare has changed. It's more drone [00:50:00] oriented. Maybe we don't need to spend 25 or 50 billion. And by the way, that's their decision to make. But I think that the The fact that we offered it to them and told them they could have it really, uh, set, uh, something in their minds that, that they needed to know, that is how much they could trust us as a country.
Marc Beckman: Wow. Interesting.
John Rakolta, Jr.: to go and take that risk of stepping out of the Arab League and signing on the Abraham Accords.
Marc Beckman: Very interesting. Um, congratulations with all of that work. After you stopped serving, um, after your term of serving the United States. uh, ended in that, in that region. Um, you know, sadly as everybody's aware of the region has just gone bonkers now it's, it's entirely unstable and, you know, people are dying.
There are hostages, people are being, um, injured permanently. I mean, it's just a horrific situation. I spoke with some people from Israel [00:51:00] recently who have family members that are hostages and, and, And, um, these people are not only fearful of, you know, whether or not their family members are okay, but they're scared to live in their own home now.
They have young children and they're afraid that the door is going to swing open and people are going to kidnap them and their children. Um, I know that, I understand that you had a meeting, a personal meeting recently, or you were part of a team, uh, that met with Netanyahu. In the United States, I think like beginning of the spring, uh, end of the spring, beginning of the summer, but like within the past six months.
So I'm curious, like, what did you discuss with him if you could share, um, a little bit of color to that, to that encounter?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Well, actually, we went there.
Marc Beckman: Oh,
John Rakolta, Jr.: myself and, uh, uh, Ambassador Robert O'Brien and Ambassador Ed McMullen went on a special fact finding trip to Israel in May of this year we've spent 72 hours on the ground and we [00:52:00] basically got to Cook's tour of what was happening. We went up to Gaza, we went to the Nir Oz kibbutz that was basically destroyed, we went to the, uh, to the site of the festival.
and met with National Security Advisors both current and past, met with President Herzog, met with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And the purpose of the trip was to witness the devastation of October 7th. And until you go there and smell it and taste it and see it, you have absolutely no appreciation, if I can use that word.
of the and the terror that took place. And you ask yourself, how do you resolve this? And we were there more for fact finding than we were there to give advice and our opinions. But what [00:53:00] I saw an Israeli society that was very, very cohesive. Yes, there were disagreements about what this next tactic should be, how we should proceed.
But all of Israeli society that I saw was just so impressively cohesive of what had to happen. and what had to happen is that they had to eliminate the threats they faced, both from Hezbollah from Hamas. And I didn't appreciate the extent and the size of that threat, the number of tunnels, the number of weapons, uh, the, the zealousness.
of the enemy, uh, and what extent that they would go to, to win. And this has been playing out for another six months, and I think, basically, the major damage in Gaza is over. And now we have to figure out a way to fix it, and that's [00:54:00] another challenge. I mean, I call it some form of a Marshall Plan, but when you take a look at has to take place to fix Gaza, can look at examples.
of a total destruction of the infrastructure of a society. Just look at Dresden, Germany after World War II was
Marc Beckman: yeah.
John Rakolta, Jr.: And so how did that come about? Well, there has to be a political leadership that is part of that. The Palestinians have to have a political leadership that wants to find a new day.
If the political leadership wants to continue war and terror, you're not going to fix it until that, until that sentiment, that That possibility is eliminated because it's going to take tens and tens and tens of billions of dollars to fix Gaza to give it a brighter day. And there isn't anybody that's going to invest in that if they're going to stay at war.
So the first thing has to be some kind of regime there that [00:55:00] wants to move towards something akin to the Abraham Accords.
Marc Beckman: Do you think there's a leader, uh, within that community that would be able to step up and then Um, also it seems like a challenge, um, to the, to the Palestinian people, to the Gazans, is the fact that for so many years, generation after generation, um, it, it appears like they're taught to kill the Jews. Um, and do you, do you feel like that leader will be able to get over that hurdle and change the minds of, of the citizenry?
John Rakolta, Jr.: You ask a very important question that I don't have an answer to. Uh, being out of government for four years, uh, you don't have access to, uh, classified information, uh, you aren't the center of the discussion, uh, you're on the periphery, uh, looking in and trying to read the tea leaves, but it's very, very difficult to do so.
Uh, but, but what you've just mentioned is the fear of [00:56:00] everybody that there's just such a significant portion of the world. of the population, I don't know what that is, 20%, 10%, 30%, that never want to settle, are willing to die for their cause, and, um, uh, that's going to be a very, very hard challenge to, uh, to overcome that.
Marc Beckman: Ambassador, how messy, in your opinion, like, how would you categorize the situation in the Middle East today? Do you think that it's something that could be turned around? I know you're saying it will take a long time, but do you think it's, uh, feasible that, that perhaps the participants from the Abraham Accord, um, peace treaty, peace, um, agreements can, can, uh, play a significant role in, in trying to help, uh, Israel and, and the, um, the Gazans to, to find peace.
And, and then now it's just spreading all over, right? You mentioned Hezbollah, so it's going into Lebanon. And, you know, I think it's like a seven front war, an eight front war now. Uh, missiles are flying back and forth with Iran. Obviously the Houthis, um, you know, are, have [00:57:00] been calmed down a little bit, but they've also been attacking.
Do you think this is something Uh, that, that the new administration will be able to calm down a little bit and take control of.
John Rakolta, Jr.: I do. I think that the ingredients are there to begin to make substantial progress, and it's based on, uh, Uh, both the promise of the Abraham Accords, but it's also based on the reality of what's happened. And that reality has taught Israel, and to a certain extent the United States, that the Houthis and Hezbollah and, uh, and Hamas isn't as powerful as we once thought, okay?
I think there was a greater fear. And we've eliminated a lot of their capabilities, and I believe that Iran Uh, is having their own internal problems. Uh, they have a leader that, um, you know, uh, I'll say in a nice way, maybe at the end of his [00:58:00] term, you know, 80 some years old. No, no successor yet has been identified.
I think that they may have to take a deep look at their own behavior, which is probably happening to a certain degree. And they have to decide whether they want to continue this because their economy is in terrible shape. Their weaponry certainly didn't stop any of those hundred jets that flew over or into Iran.
So I think there is this window that something can happen. And I hope that the Trump administration takes advantage of that, and I'm confident that they will.
Marc Beckman: Ambassador, I heard from one of my, uh, pretty reliable, uh, source actually, from an intelligence source, um, somebody in my network, that the leader of Iran is actually pretty sick and like almost on a deathbed, um, you know, who knows if this is accurate or not. I heard that they've actually selected already somebody to, um, slide into that position at the right time.
I [00:59:00] don't know if it's true or not worth sharing. Um, anyway, it's, it's really, you know, I wanted to get into a deeper conversation with you today. I know that your company is building, um, these hyperscale data centers and you're building, uh, these incredible automobile factories all over the world in the United States too.
But, um, you know, we've, we've been speaking so long, so. Uh, what I'd like to do is invite you back to the show at some point to focus in on those two pillars of, of your business. Um, and, uh, what I do at the end of every show is I ask my guests to, um, participate in a, um, And a little thing that I do where it incorporates the name of the show, Some Future Day, it's a James Joyce inspired concept. Some Future Day is the name of the show. And what I do is I start the sentence and then I ask my guests to finish. So I would like to ask you, are you game for that?
John Rakolta, Jr.: Sure, [01:00:00] absolutely.
Marc Beckman: Great. So here we go. I just think of it off the cuff, but in some future day, the Abraham Accords will be.
John Rakolta, Jr.: Adopted by the entire world that if people or countries do not actually sign it, that they will become a partner to it. Uh, and, uh, that has already begun to happen. There are some partners that have signed up. They're not actually signing the Abraham Accords, but they're partners to the Abraham Accords.
And I think if you just keep on reading text over and over and over again, the promise of the Abraham Accords is really the only way that the world can come together.
Marc Beckman: That's beautiful. I agree with you and and I laud you for all of your achievements and successes, not just commercially, but what we've spoke a lot about today is about humanity and and um, you know, I really do appreciate your work. Thank you so much for joining me today.
John Rakolta, Jr.: Okay, I will just leave you with one thought. [01:01:00] In automobile today, are six major security issues that the United States has to keep vigilant on. Battery technology and chemistry, chips, chips and processors in terms of electronics, the speed of the cell technology, lightweight materials, and advanced manufacturing techniques.
Next. All six of those apply to everything that is produced in our country eventually.
Marc Beckman: So, do you feel like the solution to those six elements is to bring all manufacturing back to the United States?
John Rakolta, Jr.: I think we need to bring back what is in our national security best interest. That's number one. Two, that our logistics and supply lines have to be shortened significantly. Three, any materials or [01:02:00] manufacturings that we don't produce here that in to national security has to be brought back. And number four, these are not old blue collar jobs.
These are high tech jobs that require a tremendous amount of education and training. And this is the future of the world and the future of our country, and we need to do it here at home.
Marc Beckman: Do you think that Trump's, uh, proposed universal baseline tariff will play a positive role in bringing those, uh, jobs back into the United States?
John Rakolta, Jr.: I do. It is not, we're not in the 30s anymore. We're in a global competition against adversaries. Who don't have the same values as we have. We need to protect those values in any way that we can. And it starts with freedom and opportunity. And we have to do whatever we have to do in order to secure our base.
And our base is our industrial base and the ability to protect our [01:03:00] homeland.
Marc Beckman: Thank you so much for sharing that today. I appreciate it, Ambassador.
John Rakolta, Jr.: Thank you very much for the opportunity. And I look forward your next future day conversation.
Marc Beckman: Thank you.
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