Some Future Day

Marc Beckman: Ambassador David Friedman, it is truly such an honor to have you join me on Some Future Day. How are you?
David Friedman: I'm great, and I, uh, I appreciate you having me, I really do.
Marc Beckman: You know, you've told, um, your story in so many different ways. And what I want to try to accomplish today is to dig into what's happening in the world currently, as well as look at some parts of your story, for example, your role, your critical pivotal role with regards to building the Abraham Accords a little differently.
Uh, so for example, regarding the Abraham Accords, I'm curious, even though Trump is in office now, are the Abraham Accords at risk of unraveling?
David Friedman: I don't think they are, I mean, you never, you never I don't know for sure or anything, but I don't think so. And I'll tell you why, um, we went through, uh, four years where, you know, if anything could have killed the Abraham Accords, uh, we experienced it over the last four years. I mean, we had, um. Uh, almost the entire world rising up, uh, against Israel, um, condemning Israel.
Uh, we had Al Jazeera, which is where most of the, uh, parties to the Abraham Accords, apart from Israel, where they get their news. So, you know, the average person in Bahrain or UAE or Morocco was watching Al Jazeera and seeing only one side of the story, right, which is inflaming. The streets there, you have a perception that America is running from Israel, that college campuses are running from Israel.
So if ever there was a time for the leadership of, let's say, the Emirates or Bahrain to say, you know what? We've been on the wrong horse. This really isn't, uh, isn't working for us. Our streets are not happy with it. We're not able to really, uh, move this, uh, further with, uh, with the war going on, let's get out.
That would have been the time. I mean, the last year or two would have been the time and they didn't. So, um. I don't see them being in jeopardy. The question is, where can we expand it? How do we grow it? And, and I'm, I'm optimistic about that as well in the Trump administration. But I think they're, I think they're here to stay.
And, and I would say to you that it's, it's mostly because of the self interests of all these countries. You know, when I, when I was meeting with, uh, the leaders of all these countries and in particular, you know, the foreign minister of the Emirates, I sat with him one day, we were just the two of us. I said to him, you know, what are you getting out of this?
You know, what's in this for you? You know, he said, look, it's not, it's not just about Israel. It's not about, you know, um, normalizing with Israel. It's, it's bigger than that. It's about, um. Uh, a, a victory by moderates over extremists. That's really what I, what I, what we're trying to achieve here now, you know, by, by normalizing with Israel, what we're saying, you know, what we're doing, what we're saying, what we're voting with our feet is, um, we, we'd rather be partners with, with, with a moderate democratic country in the Middle East than with, than with an extremist country, even if the extremists are Muslims, even if the extremists are, are Arabs, uh, we're, we're, we're elevating the value of, of moderation over the, over the curse of extremism.
And I thought that was, you know, that, that, when I, when he said that to me, it all kind of made sense. And nothing that's happening now really changes that calculus. If anything, it reinforces it, right? I mean, we're seeing now just what extremism can do in this very, you know, troubled region. So I think the, the lessons of the Abraham Accords, uh, if anything, I think people will double down on them, uh, rather than run from them in the aftermath of October 7th.
Marc Beckman: So how important is the commercialization of those economies as it relates to supporting the Abraham Accords? you know, it's kind of interesting because there's the cultural segment, of course we get that, religion, et cetera. But many people often overlook the fact that commerce. Creates all of these freedoms.
When people are making money and they're happy, everything seems to unlock, right? Freedom of speech, freedom of religion and beyond. So is, is commerce really the, the, uh, pivotal, the most important part, the most critical part to the Abraham accords?
David Friedman: I would say that that would be sort of the, uh, the conventional wisdom, but remember this is the Middle East where, you know, none of the conventional wisdom really, really applies. And so, uh, commerce, commerce, I think is the icing on the cake. I think commerce, uh, has the potential to unlock relationships and unlock opportunities and to unlock prosperity.
And of course that's extremely important. But the reason that, um, We haven't had the commerce has been because of the, the, because people were dug in to their ideological positions. And while, um, uh, you can argue that you, you, you create the commerce and then that further unlocks the ideological rigidity and that's true, but you can't get to the commerce until you first unlock some of that rigidity, you gotta, you gotta, people have to kind of.
jump into the pool, you know, without, without any money to show for it, just jump into the pool and say, look, Israel's a democracy. It's a good country. They're, they have, they have good values where we have a common enemy in Iran. We have a common, you know, uh, uh, enemy in radical Islamic extremists. Um, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna.
normalize this relationship and then good things will come from it. Now, when, when the commerce is unlocked and it has been to some extent, but not to the fullest extent, it starts to, it starts to validate the assumptions. And that's very important. But, um, but, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta sort of cross the Rubicon first and, and fortunately, you know.
that's happened. And now, you know, uh, with the war, it's very hard to do, do much more during the war. It's, you know, lots of things are, lots of pressures. But, but I think, you know, I think, um, we're, we're certainly on the, on the downside, you know, on the downslope of, of this war. And as it starts to come to an end, hopefully in the right way, we will, I think, see not just the Abraham Accords expand, but I'll see even as the existing countries will see a lot more prosperity.
Marc Beckman: So I'll get into that in a little bit. I'm curious, just your use of relationships made me think about, um, how personal all of this is for you. I mean, it's such an interesting thing that you've accomplished in your life. What's it like to, to go in and, and go into these Muslim states and, and organize. You know, arguably the most important Middle East peace process for our, for our generation.
I mean, what, what an incredible accomplishment for you, David.
David Friedman: Well, you know, you know, like, like most, Negotiations, um, you know, when, when, when teams are together, it's not unusual to have a good cop and a bad cop, you know, and, and I, I was kind of, when it came to the Muslim states, I was sort of the bad cop, right? Because what, what, you know, what, what Jared was saying is like, you know, look, I can't give you all these things because.
Um, I got a ambassador to Israel who's very close to the president, and he is right, he is right dug in on, on his values. He's the son of a rabbi. He grew up in a Orthodox home. Um, his, um, he had his bar mitzvah in Israel in 1971, shortly after the Six Day War. He's an expert in Jewish history. He's an expert in Israel's history.
He's just not going to give you what you want. He can't do it. Like it's, it's like not, it's just not, so we're going to have to, we're going to have to work within some of those, uh, that framework. And I think that, you know, um, oddly enough, you know, people think that, um, people think that Muslims are naturally, um, kind of, uh, pro, pro Islam and, and, and therefore, um, hostile to Judaism or Christianity.
That's a zero sum game. You can't be for one. If you're for one, you're against the other. Those weren't the ones that I met. You know, those weren't the Muslim leaders that I met. I, I, I found that they, um, you know, had deep respect for people of faith and, and the, um, uh, one of the, one of the assumptions that one of the incorrect assumptions that was made by, you know, Democrats and Republicans prior to, um, you know, prior to the Trump administration is that Arab leaders, you know, are, you know, kind of, you know, um, Muslim, they're, they're, their adherence to Muslim, to Islam, comes at the expense or to the detriment of others.
Now, you know, some people can read the Quran that way, um, but that's not the way these people met, that I met. I mean, I, I kind of had conversations with, with some, I won't, I won't mention by name, but I said, look, you know, you believe in, in the, in the Bible, not Quran. I mean, you see the Old Testament as, as holy.
You see Moses as, as a holy prophet. Um, same with, you know, Joshua and Samuel now. What would you do if you were me? I mean, if you were me, and you were a devout Jew, and, and the Old Testament was really your entire, the only text that really, you know, motivated you, and you have these covenants that God made to the Jewish people about the land of Israel, would you just, like, ignore that?
Like, would you give it away? I mean, like, like, these, these, these places are not holy to, um, to other faiths, or not as much so as to the Jewish faith. What would you do? What would you say? Listen. You know, I get it, like, I totally respect people who adhere to their faith, especially when, you know, when they're adhering to texts, to holy texts, when they're not making stuff up.
They're actually adhering to, um, to ancient texts. But that's for you to decide. Like, we're not telling you what to do. Like, you know, we're not giving you, you know, directions on, on how to be a better Jew or how to, how to help, uh, Israel, um, uh, you know, achieve its goals, um, you know, this is what we care about.
I mean, this is, you know, again, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed built the Abrahamic Faith Center in Abu Dhabi, which has, you know, a church, a synagogue, and a mosque in one facility. I mean,
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
David Friedman: these are very, very forward looking people, and they don't view Um, the three Abba Abrahamic faiths as being in conflict with each other.
They, they, they see them very much coexisting, which is the future, that is the future of Israel and the Islamic world to, to, to deal with people who see the world the same way.
Marc Beckman: That's interesting. Do you keep in touch with any of the foreign leaders, uh, that you developed relationships with?
David Friedman: Um, you know, I, uh, I, for, for a while, for a while. And then, um, you know, I started getting uncomfortable with the idea of meeting with them. During the Biden administration when invariably I would be offering them views that were in conflict with the government. So, you know, uh, they get very angry at you when you make, you know, make a foreign trip and you're a former diplomat and you start trying to push the conversation or the narrative in a particular direction.
So I, I just figured I'd leave it alone until, until the water was, was friendlier.
Marc Beckman: Let's talk a little bit about, uh, Israel and what's happening right now with Hamas and, and, and Gaza. Um, I know you've been very vocal about the idea of a two state solution, but I'm curious, is there any type of Palestinian state that you would accept?
David Friedman: Uh, no, you know, it's, it's kind of like, uh, you know, you would expect the answer to be, well, you know, if we hypothesize X and Y and, you know, assume B and C, but I've done this long enough to know that all those hypotheses are fake. Like, you know, so like I, yeah, like, you know, could I. come up with a hypothesis where the Palestinians would have, you know, local autonomy over some of their, um, cities.
You know, they'd have a mayor, they'd have, you know, a, you know, a zoning director, they'd have things, um, where Israel had ultimate sovereignty, security control. Yeah, that's really what my book is about. That's what I'm assuming. I'm not assuming that, that, you know, that Palestinians will, will, will lose any voice.
But the idea that Palestinians will have any kind of a platform that would be, um, that would not be controlled, you know, from a security perspective, from a, um, you know, from the airspace, from the electromagnetic spectrum that would not be controlled by Israel. I can't see it, and I, and I, and, and, you know, let me, let me take it a step further because I think, you know, um, I think it's important, you know, to put this in the context of past conflicts and how they got resolved.
You know, Israel, you know, as powerful as it is over its enemies and, Absolutely how powerful it is. It hasn't won a war since 1967. You know, 1967, it defeated its enemies. And it took their land, right? They attacked and they fought back. And they took their land. And it was a decisive victory. Even, you know, Gamal Nasser, who was the head of Egypt at the time, who was a, you know, um, really the leader of the Arab world, you know, he was humiliated.
He, he, he went on TV and said, look, I'm, he apologized to his people. And he went into hiding and he died a couple of years later from, from grief, but that was a victory. Why is that victory important? Because, you know, when I came to Israel for the first time in 1971, four years after the six day war. I was 13 years old, but I used to travel around with my friends to places like Jenin and Nablus and Ramallah, places where today, where today you would need, you know, bodyguards, escorts, and maybe then he still wouldn't go.
He used to go there. Israel, Israel had won. The Palestinians accepted the victory. They've never had their own. They've, they've only lived under the sovereignty of someone else their entire history, however long you Whether it's a 100 year old history or a 50 year old or whatever it is, there's never been a nation of Palestine.
So they accepted it, they accepted Israel, and they wanted kind of Israelis to come in, buy their goods, to have commerce, to trade, and that's what we did. You could drive there, you could walk there. Oslo came along in 1994 and created walls and boundaries, but my point is that was when Israel won in 1967.
They haven't won a war since. It's 1973, they were attacked, you know, by, by all the same countries, and it wasn't that quick. They were attacked by surprise and they, that's not how they lost the war. They lost the war because they fought back and they were ready to capture Cairo. They were ready to capture Damascus.
They were ready. They had isolated the Egyptian army in the Sinai. They were, they were going to, they were going to, they were going to, um, die of thirst. And Kissinger came in and said, okay, give it all back. Stop. You know, you made your point and that's it. And they never, they didn't win. They've never won a war since.
They've had battles and battles and battles and wars and skirmishes and rockets firing them. And every single time this ends, it ends with a piece of paper that means different things to different people. you know, highly nuanced. Uh, everybody gets to save face. Everybody gets to declare victory. And all you do is you defer another battle for five more years.
Another battle happens, people get killed and on and on and on. And so, um, what I have, what I think is most important now, um, is that Israel wins. Now, how do you, what's the metric in this world by which you measure victory? It's that Hamas loses this territory. You know, when Trump got up and said a week ago, um, we're taking over Gaza.
We're going to let the Palestinians, we're going to find the Palestinians another place to live. Sure. That was, that's justifiable entirely on humanitarian grounds because Gaza is pretty much unlivable right now, but it has, it has the additional benefit of demonstrating to the entire world that Hamas lost.
Hamas started a war. Hamas acted with, you know, unprecedented, unimaginable brutality. And the consequence was that they lost and they lost their land. And because of that, the Palestinians who live there lost their land. That is the only metric by which the, um, the, the, the Palestinian radicals will accept defeat.
And I think that that's what we need. We need to, they need to lose. Look, people say you can't defeat an ideology. Yeah, I completely disagree. I mean, Nazism was a horrible ideology. The Japanese were completely ideologically motivated. I mean, they thought Hirohito was a god, right? Um, we have great relationships now with Germany and with Japan because they surrendered, because we defeated them without any debate.
And then we said, okay, you guys have lost. How do we build things back? We're under, you know, we set up a base in, uh, in Okinawa. We set up a base in Ramstein, which I've been to many times in Germany. We said, okay. We're We're going to help you rebuild, but you're going to rebuild our way, not your way. Okay.
Very Trumpian, by the way. And it works. Look at, look at, look how well it worked to our best friends in the whole world of Japan and Germany. So that to me is the, is, is the right template. And, um, and if I could say one more thing about why we can't have a Palestinian state. So, obviously, we, we've seen this movie now with Gaza, right?
I mean, and I should, you know, maybe you know this, but maybe remind your viewers when, when Israel left Gaza in 2005, they took all their civilians out, they took all their military out. And, and the Bush administration said, you know, Bush too, Bush, George W. Bush, he said to the Palestinian Authority, guys, this is your chance.
We're giving you 25 miles of. Uh, Western facing, sunset facing, Mediterranean paradise, right? Beautiful, and there's nobody there but you. It's all just you, okay? And we're gonna give you money, and we're gonna give you support, and we're gonna help you, and you're gonna prove to the world that you can live side by side, Israel, peacefully.
With prosperity, with mutual respect, uh, human rights, and, and that's gonna be the template that you can then export or extrapolate to Juda and Samaria to the West Bank. That was the goal. That was the whole goal of the whole thing. And they, they failed immediately. They failed in 2006, 2007, you know, every year they failed.
And then comes, you know, 2023, October 7th, and I said, okay, that's, that's gotta be the last nail in the coffin. Um, and so, um, I, I, I would. point that out. And the other thing I would point out, which I think, which is really one of the themes of my book that, you know, came out a couple of months ago called One Jewish State, that if you look at, you know, there aren't any other democracies in the Middle East besides Israel.
And, um, if you look at, Um, you know, whether, you know, who, who in this region has a track record of empowering minorities? It's only Israel. Like, if you look at the Israeli population, 20 percent of it, uh, is Arab, Arab citizens, right? If you look at all the elite universities in Israel, and there's some, you know, really, really fine schools, more than 20 percent of the students there, are Arab, right?
I mean, they, they have a huge advantage. Most of them don't serve in the army. So they got to start university at 18 instead of a 21. Um, they, they've become, you know, they've reached the height of their professions in law, medicine, banking. You know, one of my dear friends is a former head of a bank, the largest bank in Israel.
He's a, um, he's an Arab citizen and a Muslim and he, and he achieved, look, so Israel knows how to, um, empower minorities when They don't want to kill them when the minorities aren't trying to kill them or engage in terror. And so that's why even if, even if you just care about the Palestinians and candidly, like I, I, I do care more about Israel than the Palestinians.
I'm not, I don't pretend to be unbiased, but Um, the reality is that if you just care about the Palestinians and you're looking for a good outcome, uh, letting them get absorbed into the state of Israel is the best way for them to get access to all the wonderful things that the world has to offer in the 21st century.
Marc Beckman: I don't disagree with you. I see that too. But what, what would you say to those individuals who, um, wouldn't agree with, uh, you pointing towards Hamas as the ideology, but rather anti Semitism and therefore it extends so far beyond that territory within Israel? It goes across Yes. Really the globe today, across the Middle East, Europe, certainly we're seeing it all day long here in the United States.
So if, if the challenge is the definition of ideology and it's not just Hamas, but it's anti Semitism on a global scale, how would you, how would you, uh, remark or answer to those individuals?
David Friedman: Well, look, it's, it's, you know, in the case of, in the case of Hamas or the Palestinian authority, we're talking about anti Semites who also have, you know, they're also living, you know, in, you know, in this. One Jewish state, and there's lots of geopolitical consequences. Outside of Israel, you know, Jew hatred really is, is, is just Jew hatred, right?
It's just people, you know, it's just kind of something in the water that people drink. And look, I, I think we I mean, I think, look, Trump did something, I thought, you know, very good in the first week. Because I've been saying, you know, I've been telling him and others, fighting anti Semitism, at least in America, really requires, you know, the entire government to get involved.
You know, you need the Justice Department to prosecute, um, criminals. You need the Justice Department to deport, you know, people who came here on student visas who support Hamas. You need the Treasury Department to impose sanctions upon people who deserve it. You need the Department of Education to deal with, um.
With universities that don't protect Jewish students, you need to make sure that you're not giving out student loans to financing the education of people who, you know, don't share our values. Um, you got the commerce department to fight against boycotting and, and, and say, you know, boycotting, uh, Jewish businesses or boycotting Israel.
What does Trump do? He, he issues an executive order and he directs every agency to appoint somebody to do exactly that. I want every one of you to come up with how your agency can fight antisemitism. So When I saw that, I was very encouraged. I hope I had maybe some influence over that. Um, it was, um, that, that's how you fight, fight anti Semitism.
And with, and there's one thing, um, Marc, which I think Jews need to do because, um, I always say to people, I said, look, for Jews to fight anti Semitism, they really need to have a, a view. About why it's worth being Jewish. Like, like I say to people, like, I don't, I don't particularly look Jewish. Maybe I do, but I don't look that Jewish.
You know, I don't, I don't speak with an accent. I don't sound that Jewish. Uh, you know, I went to, got a good secular education. Why do I not change my name to, uh, From Friedman to, you know, Franklin, you know, just, just kind of slink into the society, you know, hang out at, uh, you know, at the restricted country clubs, you know, play golf with, uh, Gentiles and just, just disappear as a Jew, like, like to me, you know, I would sooner cut off my arm than doing that.
Right. So, so why we need to, we need Jews to understand why. It's worth being Jewish, and it, I'm not talking about how they observe their faith, I, you know, I, I'm, you know, I'm indifferent to how people observe, it's, it's personal, but, but to feel that You're a Jew and that you're part of a 3, 500 year continuum, um, to understand why we're here today.
And, you know, back in 3, 500 years ago when we were, you know, starting out, you know, there were Phoenicians and there were Ugarites and there were, um, Philistines and, you know, none of them around anymore, right? We're still here. Why are we still here? We're here because we, that, that book that, um, that we're called the people of the book, that book has resonated and kept us together for 3, 500 years.
Doesn't mean, you know, you don't have to believe that it was written by God. Some people do. I happen to believe that, but it doesn't mean everybody has to believe it. It could just be the, the, the, the, you know, consolidating, uniting force that somebody wrote. You know, 3, 500 years ago, whatever it is. But this is, we have to understand who we are, where we fit within Jewish history, how lucky we are to still be around, what values, you know, we bring to the world.
You know, it's not just about winning Nobel Prizes. I mean, it's great that we win, you know, we got like, you know, some ridiculous percentage of Jews win Nobel Prizes, it's all great. But that doesn't really resonate with me. I don't, you know, I want to know, you know, I want people to know why are we here?
We're not here to win Nobel prizes. We're here to kind of maintain a culture and values that have stood the test of time for more than three millennia. And I think when we know that and we're comfortable with that and we defend that, we'll all be better off at defending anti Semitism rather than kind of, you know, uh, you know, Kind of shirking away from it because, you know, it makes us uncomfortable.
Marc Beckman: Yeah. When you speak, it's so, um, uh, compelling and logical, common sense, um, rooted in history. It makes a lot of sense. Let's, let's get back to the concept of one Jewish state and, and your book. I mean, you also talk about the importance of Israel having sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. Um, what, how could that happen?
Do you think that's feasible?
David Friedman: Well, I do, I do. I do think it's feasible. I think, uh, it's, it's even part of the, uh, The political narrative today had never been before, you know, uh, at a press conference about three weeks ago, a friend of mine from an Israeli, uh, uh, news outlet, you know, asked the president, he said, look, you know, a lot of people would like to see, uh, Judea and Samaria become part of Israel.
What do you think? You know, any other president in history would have said, what are you out of your mind? That's, you know, we're never gonna, we're not gonna talk about that. He said, look, we're gonna, we're, you know, we'll, we'll come out with something on that in a few, uh, in a few weeks, he said. Now, again, I don't know which way he's coming out on it.
Um, and by the way, I, I think it's, um, and, and this is, you know, a little bit of a side point, but I think, uh, very important to point out. This needs to be Israel's decision. You know, like we talk about, you know, Trump and Judea and Samaria, what will Trump allow? Um, Israel has to be of one mind on this first.
I mean, this is a big lift. This is not, this is not, you know, making Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Everybody in Israel wants that. But this is something where inside of Israel, you've got very different views. You know, and, and it's a big lift. I mean, how do you actually absorb two million, two and a half million Palestinians?
What rights do they have? They have the right to travel. They have the right to vote. What kind of right to vote? What's the governance? How are we going to, you know, kind of healthcare they get? I mean, all kinds of real kind of just. Heavy lifting issues that have to get decided who's going to pay for it.
How much is it going to cost? This is Israel's decision to make. It's not America's decision to make. And, and I tell my friends in Israel, cause they say to me, well, what will Trump do? I said, if I asked president Trump tomorrow to approve this, the first question he'd ask me, is this what Israel wants to do?
And I would honestly tell him, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I don't think they've given it enough thought. And he would say, well, why don't you come back to me? Like when, when they know it, I'm, you know, I'm not going to be a bigger Zionist than the Zionists. Like, you know, don't ask me to. to plan out Israel's future.
Let Israel plan its future, which, which he's right about, 100 percent right about. So, you know, my book, we translated into Hebrew and I speak a lot in Israel about this because when I, when I tell them this, look, you guys, um, I'm not, I'm not criticizing, you know, I'm not criticizing you guys. You haven't had a day of peace.
And since your entire existence, I mean, you're still in a state of war now with, you know, Iraq and Syria and Lebanon, they still got tough relations with lots of the rest of the world. You got, um, you got a very diverse population. You got, you know, you got a lot of, uh, you know, you got a lot of Arabs on one side of the political spectrum.
A lot of, you know, ultra Orthodox on the other side of the political spectrum don't serve in the army, creates lots of strains. I mean, you got lots of, you know, it's a, it's, it's a tough country to run. So I'm not criticizing you. But you've had. Judea and Samaria now for, um, for 57 years. Right? 57 years. You debate about it.
You talk about it, you say like, we're never gonna give it up. You don't do anything to, to solidify your, your presence there. Um, it's like, it's like, you know, a man is dating a woman for 57 years, right? And she says to him, we ever gonna get married? You know, and he says to her, well, I love you. And so I didn't ask you if you loved me, I said, we're getting married.
He said, well, you know, we have so much fun together, you know, it's such a great time we have together. Listen, I didn't ask you that. Are we getting married or not? And that's sort of what Judea and Samaria is. I mean, we talk, everybody talks a good game about it, but so far Israel hasn't gotten married to Judea and Samaria.
And the less they, when they don't do that, they lose credibility in the world as, as being serious about it, even though I know they are. So I've been encouraging them. It said, read the book, the book's out there in all the bookstores. Read this. Uh, I go and speak there and I tell him, look, You're a grown up country, you're a first world country.
This is not an issue for you to punt on, you know, to let the re Because if the rest of the world decides, if the UN decides, if America decides, if the Quartet decides, you're not going to be happy. I mean, what kind of a country? This is your longest border. This is, you know, your biggest, you know, you can't, you can't draw a map of your borders right now because everybody's got a different view of what it should be.
You got, you should decide this and then make the case, uh, why it's good for Israel, why it's good for The Palestinians, why it's good for the region. Why it helps America, it helps national security, make the case. And I think that if you do that in a serious way, you'll gain a lot of respect. I say the world's not going to respect you though until you respect yourselves.
And you got to respect yourselves by handling these issues yourselves. It's not for anybody else to decide. So I'm sorry for that long winded side sidetrack. But what I, but what I, what the answer to your question is really, it could be done. But not if, not unless Israel starts getting very serious about it.
Uh, I think. Donald Trump is the most open to this type of an outcome. I think he, I think from his perspective, because, you know, uh, four years ago, four and a half years ago, we tried writing a map, you know, with, you know, it looked like, it looked like polka dots, you know, uh, you know, a dot here for the Palestinians, a dot here for the Israelis.
It, it, it just I think he looked at it and said, this is not a map. Like, this is just like, it's like, it's like a Rorschach test, you know? So, um, I think that he, um, I think he would be very receptive. One line on the Jordan River, Israel takes ultimate responsibility, and then we figure out how to backfill rights and privileges and opportunities to the Palestinians so that their lives are demonstrably better than they are now.
That I think is, is, is very doable. But, um, Um, I, I think from the American side, we can encourage Israel to work on that, but at the end of the day, it's, it's, you know, Israel has to manage this, uh, on its own. And, and, you know, America is not going to come in with, you can't assume America will come in with, with anything, money or, or, or troops or anything else.
But I think it's doable. And I think, uh, and it's, it's what I think is the best outcome. I wrote the book to get people talking about it and thinking about it and, uh, and it looks like that's, that, that has become the case.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely an audacious strategy and, you know, predictably, I think we'll see an Israel with expanded territory probably within the next four years or so, certainly during this Trump administration. But, um, Jews are funny people, right? Like, we're both Jewish and, you know, we can't help But debate, we can't make decisions, whether it's something as simple as what's for dinner or something as complicated as to what you just laid out as it relates to infrastructure concerns, as it relates to monetary concerns, as it relates to security concerns.
So. Is it feasible? Can the, can the Jews get out of their own way as it relates to this one state solution that you're, that you're, you know, inherently, can we get out of our own way as it relates to this vision of one state that you're laying out in your book?
David Friedman: Well, I, I hope so. Look, you know.
Marc Beckman: Culturally. Can we do it?
David Friedman: I, I mean, we, we definitely need God's help for this. Um, look, I mean, just to put this in context, um, you know, King Solomon was considered to be the wisest man, you know, biblically he was considered to be so, so smart and wise, right? And when he left, he, he ruled for 40 years.
And, and he thought he had people united and everything, and he didn't. And when he died, the, um, uh, the kingdom that he ruled over split. So you ended up with a kingdom of the Northern Kingdom, which had 10 tribes. There were 12 tribes, 10 tribes. And then the, uh, the kingdom of Judea. We're called, we're called Jews today because, uh, we come from the kingdom of Judea.
What happened to the other 10 tribes in the Northern Kingdom? Within 200 years, we were so divided within 200 years. The Assyrians came, they conquered the Northern Kingdom, they dispersed all the tribes. So 10 tribes. I mean, the Jews were actually, you know, about, you know, about 2, 500 years ago, the Jews were actually, you know, we, we, we populated a large portion of the earth.
Like we were like a, we weren't this tiny little speck, but 10 tribes out of 12, five, six of the Jewish people, because of this, this unity were dispersed forever. We never found them. They're called the 10 Lost Tribes. We have no idea where they are. And we were left behind in this small little kingdom of Judea, which is why we call ourselves Jews.
So. History tells us that we are our own worst enemy. Isaiah has a famous line that your enemies will come from within. And, um, we gotta, we gotta do better. Look, the second temple was destroyed because of internal hatred. I mean, it's, it's, it is our Achilles heel. And, um, Uh, you know, I get very aggravated, like, I mean, I don't know if you, if you saw this, um, there was a full page ad in the New York Times, um, 350 people claimed to be Jewish leaders.
I hadn't heard of too many of them, but whatever, you know, 350 people, uh, financed apparently by the Rockefeller Foundation, which, you Another disappointment, um, you know, basically saying that, that, you know, Gaza needs to go back to the, to the Palestinians, you know, doesn't matter if it's run by terrorists, we, it's, it's a Jewish value, somehow it's a Jewish value for Jews to, um, to be punching bags, is essentially what they're saying.
And, um, yeah, look, they're out there. They're, they're, they're probably, I would say that, uh, even with Israel, Israel is an area where. You have some number of liberal Jews will take conservative views like there's, there are people out there who are normally liberal, you know, strongly liberal on most issues, you know, uh, you know, traditional liberal issues, um, who still, you know, when it comes to Israel, I think especially after October 7th have turned, uh, turned to the right, but still the vast majority of Jews in America, Uh, are, are leftists and, uh, they don't agree with me.
A lot of them don't like me. You know, I get a lot of speaking invitations. Uh, very few, very few from the left. I try to grab them whenever I look for them. I look for opportunities to speak to people on the left. Is anybody listening on the left who was looking for a speaker? Hire me and I'll give you a better deal than I give people on the right.
Cause I want to speak to, uh, to, to, to these groups and just talk with them. I don't hate, I don't hate anybody. In fact, I try very hard to love. The Jews, like every Jew. I mean, I think it's, it's something we have to, you have to work at it. It's not easy, but you know, Chabad has that view and they're very successful at it, and I don't give up on any Jews.
You know, even if they're, even if they're taking, you know, you know, strawberry drinks at Starbucks and walking outside and pouring them out, you know, over, over, you know, pseudo dead, uh, baby. I, I, whatever. I mean, I don't give up on them. But man, it's a, it's, it's a tough group.
Marc Beckman: Well, unity for Jews is difficult, both domestically and, and within the Middle East. And, you know, that's very obvious, but it's interesting when you talk about Gaza and what happens next in that territory. Everything goes back to money in my, in my, um, uh, opinion, David, like it's all, let's, let's face it.
It's all business at the end of the day. There's a lot of business oriented here and the Middle East itself isn't unified with regards to how to rebuild Gaza. In fact, I think a majority of the sentiment is, or at least I'm hearing that, um, some of the wealthier nations, even those in the Abraham accords.
wouldn't be willing to put a dollar in to rebuild Gaza because they know that that is going to be destroyed and decimated if they, if they leave it to Hamas again. Um, I'm not sure if you're hearing the same thing. And then there are other parts of the Middle East where they're like, uh, there's no way that the Jews and Israel and the United States should take that.
That, um, I think in fact, Saudi Arabia might've just, uh, within the past week or so said that, uh, Gaza needs to go back to Hamas and the, and the Palestinians now. Um, so there's, there's dispute within the Middle East, but the reality is who's going to pay for it. It's expensive. Who's going to pay for it?
David Friedman: No, you're absolutely right, and, and, and, um, look, in the Middle East especially, yeah, this is true elsewhere too, but especially in the Middle East, you have two currents of conversation. You have that which is for public consumption, then you have the real conversations going on, you know, without the press there.
They're often different. They're often different. I mean, like, it's no secret that the Saudis couldn't care less about the Palestinians. I mean, that's, you know, they, they, they can, they can say whatever they want, but the, the body language is, is clear that they view the Palestinians as, um, you know, a very, um, uh, people with an incredible sense of self entitlement, uh, not, not satisfied with.
Uh, anything that relates to their own people, uh, dominated by a hatred for Israel and a desire to help destroy Israel. So none of these countries are going to help the Palestinians destroy Israel, you know, because it's, it's a waste of time and money. And because, you know, the Palestinians, once they destroyed Israel would destroy the kingdoms of Saudi Arabia and Jordan as well.
I mean, they want to, they want to be the next, you know, caliphate. So you know, there are two different levels of conversations. What I think Trump did, which was. He recognized something obvious. I mean, it's not pleasant to hear it, but it's obvious, which is that, you know, Gaza has enormous commercial potential, right, which, which, which means a lot.
It means, it means that there could be tens of thousands of jobs for people in that area who need jobs. I mean, um, the way I looked at it, 25 miles of beachfront, if you have a thousand feet per project on the beach, which is a lot, you know, it's a large, it's a large amount of beachfront. At a thousand feet, it's 132 multi hundred million dollar projects, theoretically, that could be built just on the beachfront, let alone, you know, uh, places to live going back.
The, the, the commercial potential is unbelievable. I mean, it's the same beach as Tel Aviv, and Tel Aviv has, a friend of mine just bought a 4, 000 square foot apartment on, on, you know, high floor condo in Tel Aviv overlooking the water. Uh, he paid, and it's rough, not furnished, 40 million.
Marc Beckman: Wow. I did not expect you to say that. That's remarkable, especially currently under present conditions. That's amazing.
David Friedman: the, the, the, the markets haven't dropped. The markets haven't dropped. The people who want to live there want to live there and, uh, they've not, you know, it's no one's betting against Israel. I mean, Israel is, everyone assumes they're going to eventually win the war.
Marc Beckman: David, when you talk about like what, what the, um, Middle Eastern leaders are saying publicly versus privately, like, let's look, you talk about Saudi Arabia, like let's consider MBS for a second. I mean, it seemed like when you were still, um, working through the Abraham Accords, it looked like Saudi Arabia was coming on board and publicly they were saying, if I understand correctly, we won't, we will not create normalization with Israel without a Palestinian state.
I, I'm correct with that, right? And MBS was saying that.
David Friedman: Yes.
Marc Beckman: So, so now you, is it your belief or your understanding that privately the Palestinian state is not such a critical part to Saudi, um, having, uh, Saudi relationships with Israel becoming normalized?
David Friedman: Yeah, I think, I think the key is the Saudis need to be comfortable that they can credibly say to the world that in normalizing with Israel and making, you know, whatever deals they make with the United States, they had the Palestinians on their agenda and they achieved something for the Palestinians.
Right now they're using the word state and that's their, that's their, You know, uh, opening bid. Um, you asked me earlier on, you know, what is a state? Can you have any kind of a state, some kind of a state? Well, I, I suppose I should, you know, recalibrate my answer and say, you know, if you define a state in such a way as to cause it to lose most of its attributes, you can, you could have me, meaning you could, again, like what, what we did, what, what Jared and I did with our kind of peace plan back in, uh, January of 2020, we called the Palestinian territory, a state, but Israel had complete security control over the area, including the right to enter, uh, the Palestinian areas.
Israel controlled the air. They controlled the electromagnetic spectrum. And there were certain triggers that the Palestinians had to meet that, you know, are a long way from where they are now in terms of having a democracy and human rights and things like that. Um, There, there, there could be, there could be some structure and I, I think it actually can live well within the, the one Jewish state architecture where the Palestinians have, I think Netanyahu says this all the time, he'll give the Palestinians as much autonomy as does not threaten Israel.
And so a lot of this, and if you remember when we put out our plan in January of 2020, um, the Palestinians ripped it up. They went to the Security Council. They ripped it up. They ripped up the map in shreds. And, um, but Saudi put out a statement saying it's a good first step and it should be negotiated under the auspices of the United States.
And I really give credit to Jared for it. Jared has the relationships there that I think really are critical. So, um, I think that, and the other thing I would point out about Saudi Arabia, they are, you know, uh, MBS is the crown prince. They're, they're still a king, right? The king is much more old school than, uh, than MBS.
So, you know, that internal, um, debate, you know, I'm not party to it. I don't know what they're saying to each other, but that still has to get kind of worked out and reconciled. Um, I, I just, I don't think a Palestinian state as we tend to think about it, um, is necessary to get Saudi in, um, but it'll require some more of that, you know, that good cop, bad cop negotiating that I alluded to right now.
I don't know who the bad cop is right now, but I'm sure they'll find, I'm sure, I'm sure there'll be some, maybe Trump, maybe Trump's the bad cop right now, which is the, which is just the best of bad cops.
Marc Beckman: I think so. I think so. But like, during that time period, Saudi also, it seemed you would know better than me, of course, that a civilian nuclear program was important to the Saudis. I'm curious, um, if it's true, why? And also, is that civilian nuclear program more important to the Saudis than an actual Palestinian state?
David Friedman: Well, the answer to that second question for sure is yes, for sure it's more important. Yeah, anything, anything the Saudis want for themselves is by definition can be much more important than a Palestinian state. Um, the Saudi, you know, nuclear program, what they want to do with it, how they want to deal with it.
Um, I haven't been in the room. I don't, I don't know what they want and, and, and, and what the, uh, you know, what the protections will be. Um, it's, it's look, the, one of the reasons why, um, the Saudis were very anxious to get this done during the Biden administration was because, um, The deal will probably require two thirds of the Senate to approve it.
And the working assumption was that with Biden in the White House, this would be considered by the Democrats kind of a legacy achievement by Biden. So you'd get 50 Democrats voting for it or whatever the percentage is. The, the Democrats, uh, the Republicans, probably a lot of them would not vote for it, but, uh, you know, you could probably get, get half of them, which would get you to the two thirds with, with Trump in the White House.
Um, you sort of lose a hundred percent of the Democrats, right? So that's why there was a desire to get it done, uh, about a year ago. Um, look, it'll, it'll, it'll, I think it gets done. I just think, you know, it's too important not to get done. I would also focus on, uh, Indonesia. I think Indonesia has, it's the largest Muslim population in the world.
Marc Beckman: I know.
David Friedman: Uh, I don't know if it's on par with Saudi Arabia, it's pretty close. So I think that's, that's another really important target that once we get the war over and again, and hopefully we, look, I. You know, a lot of this gets to, you know, how do you end the war? Um, Trump knows how to end the war. Um, I think he, I think, uh, I think, you know, what Lindsey Graham said, you know, the other day also, you know, he knows, I think he's right, which is to end the war, Hamas leaves, you know, they leave with, you know, all their friends and family and sympathizers and they go someplace else and you kind of.
Get rid of most of the civilian population. That's a win. That's an, you know, an undeniable win. And then you build back and then maybe then you can expand the, uh, relationships in the Gulf. But as I said at the beginning, you know, there has to be a victory here, otherwise it's just gonna go on and on.
Marc Beckman: So, David, would you consider a victory, a scenario where Hamas, let's say, tomorrow stands up and says, we'll release every single hostage, living and dead, crazy to have to say that, but we'll release every single one for a ceasefire right now, today. Is that, to me, if I understand your vision correctly, that's a loss for Israel,
David Friedman: Yeah, that would be a, yeah, I don't think Israel can do that. Meaning, meaning look there, there's two goals to this war. One is to really, one is to free the hostages, no question. The other is to win the war. And, um, you have to do both. Look, you know, you have, you have a nation that's grieving for the hostages and their families, uh, who are undergoing, you know, unspeakable cruelty, you know, and torture.
That's, that's, that's number one. But on the other hand, you also have a very small country where, you know, everybody knows a soldier now who's, who's died in battle, right? And, and they're saying, you know, we sent our children to war. So that they could protect the 10 million people that live here, so that they could come back victorious.
Now, our son's not coming back. But if you're telling us that our son's not coming back and we're going to lose the war, then why did you send them to battle in the first place for? Like, why did, why do I have, you know, why do I have to, you know, go to the cemetery every year and grieve over my son? If, if, if, if the goal, if there was no goal, if they didn't win, especially when they have the capacity and the capability of winning.
Equally important. I mean, I'm not trying to prioritize one over the other. Um, uh, but we got to get both.
Marc Beckman: I see it. So just going back on the nuclear issue with Saudi Arabia, don't you think it's just one step towards, closer towards, uh, weaponizing nuclear armaments and, and then what kind of a threat does that become down the road for, uh, Israel?
David Friedman: Yeah. Look, a nuclear Saudi Arabia does not make me feel good. I don't get any warm feelings about it for lots of reasons. First of all, remember, again, all these countries are not democracies. They're all monarchies, you know, uh, dictators and, you know, people have their, every dictator, you know, has to fight off coups.
You know, you remember MBS took like a thousand people and he jailed them in a Ritz Carlton for like, you know, a year
Marc Beckman: do remember. I do remember. I also remember 9/11. That wasn't too long ago. And a lot of those, uh, terrorists were from Saudi Arabia,
David Friedman: Right. So, so the idea that you're going to make a bet, uh, make a long term bet on a, uh, Muslim monarchy, uh, I think, I think you gotta be a wild eyed optimist to do that. And, um, what I don't know, cause I'm not an expert in, I'm not an expert in whether there's a way to devise. A, uh, a, a, a civilian nuclear program where you have the ability to control the weaponization.
I'm assuming not, but you know, but you know, that, that's, that's going to be the issue and whether or not, um, what, what, what, what, uh, you know, tripwires there are, what American controls there are, I just don't know. Uh, and, and I haven't seen anything.
Marc Beckman: Yeah. I mean, sadly speaking, a lot of that has to do, I think, with who's sitting in the, uh, office of president here in the United States. I mean, look at what went on with regards to nuclear capabilities in Iran during the Biden administration. It's a real, it's a real threat. Right. Not just for, um, Israel, but for the entire planet.
Now, how do you think Trump is going to address that nuclear threat coming out of Iran?
David Friedman: Well. Um, I mean, Israel did a lot of the spade work, um, in the last year. So what Israel has done now is they have proven that Iran is beatable, right? I mean, Israel flew in. They took out all their air defense systems, which were, you know, by all accounts, pretty sophisticated. They took out all the air defense systems, they're able to fly around with impunity.
Um, they then were on the receiving end of 300 ballistic missiles, no country in the world. has ever been on the receiving end of 300 ballistic missiles in history. Nobody knew what would happen. Um, much to Israel's credit, um, nobody was killed. They were able to, you know, intercept most of them that were, that were heading towards, uh, you know, the Israeli territory.
So I think now you, you bring in Trump who is, I believe, I completely believe when he says that he means it, that he will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. Um, Israel's shown. America the path to a kinetic response to their nuclear weapons, which, um, America and Israel together in partnership could certainly set back their program 10, 20 years.
Um, because Trump is Trump and because he feels right now. Very strong. And he feels that Iran is very weak. You know, their, their real is at the lowest point in its history. They have no currency. The sanctions are going to basically bring them to the brink of bankruptcy. Trump thinks that, you know, maybe over the next couple of months, he can get them to completely cave.
And what does completely cave mean? They say we're giving up our nuclear program and you, the Americans, not some. crazy UN agency, but you, the Americans, are going to be in charge of coming in wherever we are. Come, you can, you can come and go as you please to verify that we've given up our nukes. I think Trump would like to achieve that, uh, without firing, uh, a bullet.
But I think the reason there's, there's a chance, and I put the chance at, you know, 20%, but the reason there's at least some chance is because The Iranians believe that Trump will, will go kinetic if, uh, if necessary. So if you ask me what I think, I think by about October, there's going to be a, uh, a massive, uh, uh, attack on Iran's nuclear weapons.
That's what I think. And uh, if Trump can pull a rabbit out of the hat, then, then maybe I'll be wrong.
Marc Beckman: So you think by October, Israel will be the ones attacking the nuclear weapons?
David Friedman: Well, I think it's a partnership. I think it's a partnership. I, I think they would do it together. Um, Israel has
Marc Beckman: Israel
has been serving like as America's pro if you think about it, like as our, our Like army proxy in a certain way. They've been fighting this entire, you know, multifront war since October 7th now, and, uh, you know, in many ways we're benefiting in, in certain ways that aren't even totally obvious to people as it relates to technological advances in, in, um, military arsenal and weapons and, and beyond.
But, you know, obviously, uh, you know, it goes beyond that. Do you think that Trump, it's time for America to, to get involved and put. Um, our soldiers on the ground, American soldiers on the ground with Israel.
David Friedman: No, I mean, I think Israel cares very much about not, about not having American soldiers on the ground. Um, it wants to fight its own battles. It's willing to fight its own battles. Now, I would, I would draw a distinction to a place like, you know, like, like Yemen in the Red Sea, in the Houthis, because they're attacking, American ships, they're attacking there.
I mean, I would assume that, and I think, I think it's already happened on several occasions, that the American military will get involved to defend their own, you know, shipping lanes. That's, that's, that's obvious. But look, when it comes to, um, Iran, I think it's a, it's an aerial attack, um, that I think Israel would, would, would take.
Maybe there's some, you know, there's some technology or some, some stuff in the air that America can support. But, um, It's really an absolute, and by the way, thank you for pointing out the fact that, you know, Israel is fighting America's, to some extent, America's battle, because everybody, everybody that America, that Israel is fighting right now, every one of them is an enemy of America.
Every one of them is a potential terrorist in our country. So that's totally true. But I think what makes Israel special is that, um, it wants to defend itself by itself and never wants to put America in a position. Where the American people have to feel like they're putting their own, uh, their own soldiers, their own, you know, flesh and blood on the line, you know, to save, uh, Israelis.
I think, you know, I think that's admirable. And I think it's what keeps the relationship so special.
Marc Beckman: David, you've given me so much time today. Insight, sage wisdom, experience. I appreciate it. Is there anything else that you'd like to add to the conversation?
David Friedman: the, the, the one thing that I think I've seen missing, you know, I'm on, I'm on social media and I, and I see others, but the one thing that I think I just would encourage, I encourage everyone to, to do this is just to understand kind of the, the history of how we got to this place.
It's, it's not a long history. It goes back only about. It goes back about a hundred years to 18, you know, 1897 was the first world Zionist Congress. And, um, and, you know, uh, I think it's people need, people, I would like people to understand that, you know, Israel, first of all, Israel is not a colonizer. Um, by definition, they're not a colonizer.
A colonizer is a, uh, is a country that then tries to, you know, you know, take over another country, right? In Israel's case, there is no other country. There's no other country. Israel lives in Israel, right? They're not colonizing anything. And they are, and they've been living there, uh, for decades. Longer than any, any, any group of people in recorded history.
Um, but I think the history is important. You know, how did we get here? And I think, well, the one thing I think, you know, I wish people would understand, and you only really get that if you know the Israeli people. Israeli people don't, they don't, they don't hate anybody and they have every reason to hate.
They have absolutely every reason to hate, uh, all the, all the terrorists and all the enemies who forced them to go into battle. They, the, the Declaration of Independence of Israel is written, you know, with a preamble that says, we want to live with everybody. We want to be friends with everybody. We want to welcome all those who want to live with us with peace.
That's in their founding foundational document. I think, you know, we're at a point right now where. It is an inflection point. It is, you know, it is a point where I think the people of Israel have kind of just about had enough. Um, but they've had enough after, you know, like 77 years of this. And the difference now from then is it's all on video.
And for those who have seen. What happened on October 7th, and I, and I'm very happy that, that, that President Trump has seen it. You just, you just can't unsee it. You know, you can't un ring that bell and you can't, um, you can't just ignore the joy, the absolute unfettered joy of the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria and Gaza, elsewhere.
The joy of watching these people, you know, commit acts of complete, you know, barbarism on, on, on civilians. We're, we're at a, we're at a sad point right now where it's sort of like we've had enough. A lot of people have had enough, but, um, boy, have the Jewish people tried and boy, boy, has Israel tried to resolve this another way.
And, um, the fact that it hasn't gone another way is not for Israel lack of trying. And I just hope people, people can study this more. Don't take it from me, but the history is pretty clear.
Marc Beckman: David, history matters. Um, unfortunately we're living in a day and age where people don't want to do the work. They don't want to take the time to read. But if you could share with my audience, perhaps like one great starting point, one great book about the history of the Jewish people, as well as Israel, the state of Israel, what would you highlight?
David Friedman: Um, such a good question. Um, I'm going to say something that is really offensive, but I'll say it anyway. Um, I did write my book for that reason, you know, right. I wrote a book, it advocates, it has a, it has a. An agenda, but I wrote it as a lawyer making a case to a judge. I wrote it, which I, which is what I used to do for a living, almost as a, as a brief, I make the case through the history, through the biblical texts, through the, um, through the facts.
And it's a short read. And so again, under your assumption that people don't want to do the work, it's a 220 page book. You can read it in a couple of nights. Uh, so if you don't mind, if you don't mind my saying that, there are, there are lots of books,
Marc Beckman: No, I love it. It's called just for the audience again, it's called one Jewish state and David, they could get it everywhere. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, everywhere, right?
David Friedman: it's, it's available everywhere. Yep.
Marc Beckman: Great. David, I know that you're an attorney, even without you mentioning it today, every guest and as ends my show the same way I provide a leading question, which incorporates the name of my show.
Um, and then the guest finishes that, uh, question for me, are you game?
David Friedman: Of course.
Marc Beckman: All right, so in some future day, Israel will become,
David Friedman: a, and this, this is what it's been predicted to become in the Bible, a light unto the nations, a
All right, David Friedman, thank you so much for your time, I really appreciate it.
Thanks Marc. Great to be with you. Thanks for a great conversation.