Some Future Day

Marc Beckman: [00:01:00] [00:02:00] All right, Robert Spencer, welcome to Some Future Day. It's, it's a pleasure to meet you. How are you,
Robert Spencer: Very well, thanks. Thanks for having me on. Pleasure to meet you as well.
Marc Beckman: Thank you. The, the issue of antisemitism is top of mind. I guess it's a, a good moment to talk about your new book. Uh, real quickly, I know you're in this promotional cycle right now, but it's really important.
Do you want to take a second and talk about it?
Robert Spencer: thanks. Uh, antisemitism History and Myth is designed to show where antisemitism comes from. Why it persists and what can be done about it, as well as, why some of the main charges that are made against the Jews in the aggregate are wrong. And, uh, it's designed really to be a response to the fashionable new antisemitism that has sprung [00:03:00] up after October 7th. I was shocked myself, actually, I wrote the book because there were a couple of people whom I admired and respected and had worked with in the past who started after October 7th. To spout these things like, oh, the Jews control the media, the Jews control the international organizations. They really kind of had this attack coming.
Things like that. I, I was shocked. I really thought that kind of thing had been ended with the, uh, ruin in the ruins of Berlin in 1945. And here we are again. I hope that this book will act as a kind of an antidote, at least to some degree.
Marc Beckman: Well, we're gonna touch on a, a couple of those topics that you hit on, uh, in a little bit. But let's go back, uh, to the, to the beginning of your, of your book, to your, the title of your book. I mean, it's, it's widely considered, antisemitism is widely considered. The oldest hatred. Um, it's, it's the, the, the deepest level of, um, hatred [00:04:00] recorded throughout, like human history.
And I'm curious from your perspective, what, what elements of that old hatred have you seen historically pulled all the way up to today into, into 2025?
Robert Spencer: Yeah, the common thread between all the different sources of antisemitism that I go through in the book that I think are indeed the main sources of antisemitism, and that is Christianity, Islam, national Socialism and International Socialism, Christianity being alone among those in actually renouncing antisemitism.
But of course there's still Christian antisemites among us. The thing about all four of those is that they are a larger group that is calling upon everyone in the world to join it. It's a universal call, and the Jews are famous throughout history, renowned and notorious throughout history for not wanting to [00:05:00] join the larger. whatever it may be, but wanting to hold onto their own identity, their own customs, traditions, and beliefs. And so you have these massive groups that are presenting themselves actually as providing really the solution to the problems of human life. And there's this one group that won't join in. And so it becomes the focus of hatred.
I think, ultimately. In other words, it's a collectivist impulse that is common throughout human history, recurs in different forms, and that the Jews are always standing against. And this is actually one reason why all those who are interested in human freedom and the dignity of the individual and individual rights in this, in these days, should be standing with the Jews in Israel.
Marc Beckman: Well that's, you know, that's certainly a topic that's popular on this show, Robert, the idea of individual liberty versus collectivism. Um, [00:06:00] when you, when you mentioned those four pillars or those four themes where, uh, your book focuses. Is on the, um, the, the history of, of antisemitism and pulling all the way into today.
It reminds me actually of a comment that my liberal Jewish friend in Israel said recently, which I was shocked about regarding Islam. He's like, Marc, you don't understand as a New Yorker. These individuals are from their, from their book, from the Koran, they are looking to kill us. They wanna put an end to us.
And I was really surprised, Robert, this is a friend of mine who doesn't see the world that I do politically, but in this instance he went way, way beyond me. And I'm curious from your perspective, is that's something that, that you, um, that you've recognized too, as it relates to Islam and, and the Koran.
Robert Spencer: absolutely. Without any doubt. Uh, I'm surprised as you were to hear this coming from a somebody who's on the left, because they're generally in total denial about it, but the Quran identifies the Jews as the [00:07:00] worst enemies of the Muslim says the strong, the people who are strongest in enmity toward the believers.
Will be the Jews. That's chapter five, verse 82 of the Quran. Then there's a famous Hadith, the tradition of Muhammad, in which he says that the last hour will not come until Muslims kill Jews, and the Jews will hide behind trees and the trees will cry out, oh, Muslim, there's a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him. this is a, a a a statement that is actually saying that Muslims can bring about. last days, the consummation of all things, the final end of the human race and the, the, the dawning of the new age. By killing Jews, they can make it happen closer. 'cause he said the last hour will not come until Muslims kill Jews.
And this is something that Muslims believe it's considered to be an authentic statement of Muhammad. I'm not saying every Muslim in the world believes it, but it is [00:08:00] quoted by Hamas. And it is widely taken for granted. Is axiomatically true in the Islamic world.
Marc Beckman: So it's interesting, really it was, if, if you saw my friend, he's, uh, super liberal, but he distinguishes being liberal from Progressive. Um, so he's kind of like a little bit more centered maybe like JFK ish back in the day. Um,
Robert Spencer: JFP
Marc Beckman: But.
Robert Spencer: considered a MAGA extremist nowadays.
Marc Beckman: For sure, for sure. Um, but he feels like what you just described is really like deeply rooted within that community. And it doesn't matter like what politicians say, what, you know, countries are doing as it relates to aligning with new accords or or treaties. He feels that. The thing humans are missing today is that that issue that you just highlighted is so deeply rooted that the approach we're taking, we're not speaking like the Christians and the Jews aren't speaking the same language as individuals [00:09:00] from the Islam faith as it relates to just going and killing Jews.
Robert Spencer: right. I mean, look, you look at Hamas, some of the statements coming out of it are absolutely staggering. uh, some years ago, Pamela Geller and I put billboards up and ads on buses in New York and so on. That quoted Hamas saying that. Our killing Jews is a form of worship, is worship of Allah. And people wrote and said that we had fabricated this quote or we're parodying Hamas.
It's a real quote. You can find it in the Middle East Research, insti Media Research Institute archives. And they actually think of this as a kind of a holy thing. That brings them closer to Allah. And another thing about this, my friend Bosch Fawstin is an ex-Muslim who grew up in New York in a secularized Muslim household.
They identified as Muslim, but they didn't [00:10:00] go to mosque. But a couple times a year, you know, uh, people who just didn't take it all that seriously, they had a Koran in the house, but nobody ever read it. But he said there was one constant among his family and everybody he knew. all had contempt from women and hated Jews those, these were just universals in the Islamic community, even among people who were not especially religious.
Marc Beckman: So there's this weird, like since October 7th when you talk about Hamas, there's like this weird rising support in western democracies for Hamas. But then you, you highlight not just like Jew hatred, but also. the, uh, positioning, I was gonna say, like the way, the way that, um, Islam puts the women as subservient, um, within the religion.
Why don't we hear about these types of topics? Like, why, why is it that a western democracy like the United States, people in our government will support Hamas clearly. Um, but they don't talk at all about how women are treated within Islam.
Robert Spencer: Well, [00:11:00] it's something that in the first place has been stigmatized. You can't talk about it because if you talk about it, you are a racist, bigoted, Islamophobe. I mean, you're gonna get heat for talking to me. I. Because for 20 some years now, I have been calling attention to things like the institutionalized mistreatment of women in the Islamic world and the response of the Muslim groups in the United States, like the Council on American Islamic Relations, which has multiple ties to Hamas incidentally, and is also deeply embedded with the American left. It, it, they say, oh, it's Islamophobic to talk about that. It's, it's a kind of, uh, racism even though Islam is not a race. And so. People are afraid now. They've internalized that over all these years of having it hammered into them. They're afraid and they think if I say that the hijab is not a choice that many women are beaten or killed for not [00:12:00] wearing it, that it is an insti.
It's a visible sign of oppression. Then I am a racist, bigoted Islamophobe, and they've been thoroughly intimidated away from talking about these things.
Marc Beckman: Robert, for the sake of this conversation for the show, when you highlight that situation where women are beaten, if they don't wear a hijab, can you, can you point the audience towards, um, a moment in time or something that they could research so that they see you're not just being a racist bigot,
Robert Spencer: absolutely. As
Marc Beckman: please.
Robert Spencer: I've got a lengthy list of women who were brutalized and killed for not wearing brutalized and or killed for not wearing hijab. At my website, jihad watch.org, one of the people you can find that list by searching for is a girl named Oxa Parvez. That's a QSA. AXA Parvez, who lived in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, and in, um, 2007 or oh [00:13:00] nine, I forget which year, but in any case, she was actually strangled to death by her father and brother with the hijab that she refused to wear, and that is not an isolated incident. By any means, it is frequent in the, in Europe in North America for women to face actual violence, for not wanting to wear the hijab.
Marc Beckman: Interesting. So if you go back into history, like focusing on your, on your new book again and looking back at. Antisemitism throughout history. Were there key turning points, Robert, that you can highlight, which led us to where we are today, like key moments in time that brought us to this new widespread modern antisemitism.
Robert Spencer: Yeah. You know, there's so many. One thing that immediately leaps to mind though is, uh, the medieval trial of the Talmud. That, [00:14:00] uh, was led by Christian authorities. The Talmud was actually put on trial. There was a convert from Judaism to Christianity who alerted the Pope in, I believe, the 13th century. To the existence of the Talmud, of which the Pope had been unaware and told him that it's full of all this anti-Christian material.
It's full of all this hateful and subversive material, and it's the book that guides the Jewish Jews in their behavior. That is frankly subversive and it needs to be destroyed. And the Talmud was found guilty and massive numbers of copies of it were burned at a time when books were still all copied by hand.
It was an extraordinary act of destruction, uh, for the Jewish community and Jewish tradition. Now, the nowadays, of course, you find this persisting in these proof texts. If you go on X or Twitter, you will find. The antisemites that have sprung up now act like mushrooms after [00:15:00] rain. They are, uh, they frequently like to post these lists of texts from the Talmud that supposedly show that the Jews are embracing evil, that they hate the non-Jews, that they want to kill the non-Jews, or destroyed their societies.
And so on. And so I show in the book actually that this is a, a massive misrepresentation of the Talmud. That the Talmud is of course a, a, a huge text that deals with non-Jews, only very glancingly. It's not like it's some sort of subversive manual hatred against non-Jews. It deals with a massive variety of subjects.
It's not a text like the Quran, where every. Word of it is something that Muslims have to obey and implement whether they do or not, and it it, but it's a ma record of conversations over various subjects, disagreements, separate differing opinions over [00:16:00] various issues. And so it's, and the, the proof texts that the haters of the Talmud and the haters of the Jews fasten upon are generally fabricated outright or willfully misrepresented. Uh, and yet this is something that I've seen spring up again and, uh, it's supposed to support the claim that the Jews are some kind of corrosive in a society that they come in and they work on trying to tear it down. And this is in accord with their secret manual that tells them to do all this and
Marc Beckman: Right,
Robert Spencer: this kind of thing seriously, to this day.
Marc Beckman: so it's all over social media. Would you consider the advent of social media one of these key turning points that has, uh, had an impact on, on flaring up antisemitism? I.
Robert Spencer: Oh, absolutely, because people get stampeded. There are social contagions that can spread so much easier. They've always been social contagions things, crazy things that people [00:17:00] start to think that. You get massive numbers of people ending up thinking like the Salem Witch trials and so on, where you had people saying, you know, I saw so and so talking to the witches and, and, and, and. People believe it and other people say, yeah, yeah, I saw the same thing. Nowadays it's very easy to spread that kind of thing. On the other hand, social media has also been responsible for a great deal of good. It's a mixed bag like anything else, I don't want to condemn it a whole wholesale. Uh, you take for example, the fact that, uh, the Islamic world, there are challenges to the jihadist assumptions and also to Islamic antisemitism that are able to reach into areas that they were never able to penetrate before.
Because if you ventured, of course, into Arabia. Previously and started preaching something that might be construed as critical of the Quran or Mohamed to be killed immediately. But now you put it online, people can see it in [00:18:00] Riyadh and even in Mecca.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I think, you know, you talk about social contagion, I think that group think is real and unfortunately, um, it's starting with the younger generation. I. Um, in fact, even Gen Generation Alpha now is finding these anti-Semitic videos on platforms like Reels and TikTok. It's really easy for them to scroll through it and, you know, they're getting their education, they're being brainwashed to a certain extent that way.
Um, Robert, just recently, like a week or two ago, the federal, the United States Federal government passed a new act called the Take It Down Act, which holds these social media platforms like Snap Meta. Um, Google TikTok responsible if there's a victim of non-consensual intimate imagery, deep fake porn. And if it's reported and the social media platform doesn't, uh, remove that, that deep fake porn within 48 hours, they're, they're liable.
So it's a shift away from two 30. I'm wondering, in your [00:19:00] opinion, legally, do you think that, um, the it's time for these social media platforms to be held accountable for the rise of antisemitism or, or hate speech in general? I.
Robert Spencer: Yeah, I mean, it's a very difficult situation because I'm a free speech absolutist. I don't think there should be any kind of restrictions on speech that are, um. Other than outright calls for violence or things like that, or criminal activity, if I'm telling you, you know, go and loot a store or something, then yeah, take that down. Uh, if on the other hand I'm saying, well, you know, there was no Holocaust. I would rather there be. A, a response to that on a rational basis. Now, I may be being naive in this because I understand people aren't really moved by rational arguments. My whole life has been trying to present rational arguments on these controverted issues, but really,
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Robert Spencer: I'm aware [00:20:00] actually even more so after the last 30 years that make having a convincing argument. Doesn't really do it. And then it's, it's a very difficult situation. I would like to see the platforms open up a bit more. Especially, I mean, X is is pretty good now since Elon bought it, but the others are still basically only open to one point of view. And if that needs to be loosened, I think the antidote ultimately to bad speech is more speech, not less.
And if, if, if there could be complete freedom of thought and freedom of discussion on these platforms, then I am still naively confident that the truth would win out in the end.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Robert, professor Jonathan Turley, who I imagine you're familiar with, his work. He joined, he joined us on Some Future Day as a guest here, and, uh, he actually shared data [00:21:00] in Germany where, uh, there is a, he created a correlation between. Um, uh, free speech absolutism and a diminishing amount of antisemitism in that marketplace.
He's actually for, um, free speech absolutism as you are. Um, but he, he pointed out with data, he backed it up that in Germany, uh, the, the, um, amount of anti-Semite sematic incidents has actually diminished. And he thinks that's because freedom of speech is so wide there.
Robert Spencer: Well, I hope so. That's encouraging to hear. it is very odd At the same time that I see on Twitter, these people, nobody ever heard of them. You know? I mean, I've been out there myself for 20 some years, and of course I had massive restrictions on my account. I. While Twitter was under the old management, and I think
Marc Beckman: I am sure.
Robert Spencer: linger, but I have 277,000 followers.
I only mention that to say [00:22:00] by comparison, these people that sprung up outta nowhere, like Jackson Hinkle and uh, Lucas Gage and some of these people that nobody heard up until. October 7th, really, I think maybe a little bit before that, and they have half a million followers, 2 million followers, massive numbers of people.
I think that is being manipulated somehow, and that is also something that needs to be investigated and stopped. I'm in favor of a level playing field, not one that's tilted in favor of any one group.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, me too, Robert. I, I completely understand. But you start to talk about these like new influencers in the digital space, people that are creating content. Um, and as a result, uh, they don't have. Have the traditional news media guardrails in place. They don't really have, if you think about it, journalistic integrity, not that mainstream media does today anyway, but, um, they're certainly not trained that [00:23:00] way and we're starting to see a lot of anti-Semitic, uh, statements pop up with individuals that have been respected personalities within.
Let's say, uh, content creation and social media people, for example, like Candace Owen, or even Tucker Carlson, I think they're very irresponsible as of late with regards to guests that come on the show. Um, information that's I. Factually incorrect historically, and really just pounding on that anti-Semitic drum over and over.
And I think there's a certain level of irresponsibility that comes, not just with reporting the wrong facts, not just with reporting factually inaccurate information, but I. They also have this tribe that follows them no matter what they say. And they know that people like Tucker Carlson has a massive amount, million and millions and millions of people that are part of the Tucker Tribe today.
And they're not gonna go and do the research. They're not gonna go and verify if what Tucker. [00:24:00] And or his guests are saying is factually accurate. So what do you think about that, that moment in time where we have all of a sudden these personalities rising up and they, they, sure we want them to have freedom of speech, but how do they become, uh, operators with integrity, with, with, you know, morals and ethics so that they're not hurting anybody?
Robert Spencer: Well, this is the, the constant problem. Uh, Tucker has had this reputation for being a straight shooter, somebody who was honest, and somebody who had integrity. If he really is that, then he should have on. A historian who will counter what Darrell Cooper was saying about the, uh, world, about the whole situation of World War ii, about the Holocaust, about Hitler, and so on, uh, about Churchill. Let him somebody on with equal time and let people evaluate the competing claims [00:25:00] for themselves. Otherwise, you have the problem of a massive platform that is. on one side, and that is a big problem. But, um, once again, I can't come down in favor of restrictions on their activities. Uh, I think the, the establishment media, the mainstream media is a good example of that because they had a, uh, some sort of a doctrine in place.
I remember from years ago that if they were espousing. giving room to one faction of the, on the political spectrum to espouse a certain opinion. They had to give equal time to the other. And, uh,
Marc Beckman: am old enough to remember that too, but. Okay.
Robert Spencer: was really more form than substance because, uh, the, they would pres what they would present as being the straight news was highly slanted.
I mean, I remember. Uh, my dad would come home from work and put on Walter Cronkite and then sit there and yell at him
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Robert Spencer: time.
Marc Beckman: Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Spencer: that [00:26:00] he was tremendously unfair in his presentation of the, what was supposed to be the way it is, you know, as Walter himself would say. And, and so, you know, maybe, uh, there could be some way in which the countering views were made available to. The same population. I don't know if that's even possible.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I think the problem is, Robert, that it's, it's capitalism, right? People are are sensationalists. They're like anti-Semitic sensationalists for, you know, dollars effectively. That's really what they're doing. They're fishing for clicks and as a result, they're getting paid. Their audiences matter. You mentioned yourself, like your audience is at about a quarter of a million.
These people go into the, you know, tens, hundreds of millions. So it's a whole different situation and I think a lot of it is, you know, hey, let's, let's not worry about the Jewish people. Let's just fuel it. Fuel demo. Let's fuel capitalism now by being antisemitic. I think that's [00:27:00] what we're looking at.
Robert Spencer: so, uh, what's behind it? You know, we need to look into this and people have alleged, well, Tucker has a big funder who's, uh, from Qatar, and Qatar is on the side of Hamas. The Hamas leaders were there on October 7th watching the thing on some closed circuit setup and celebrating. And so that needs to be widely exposed and maybe, uh, uh, that would bring some sanity to this.
If the, once again, if the playing field is uneven and Tucker is able by means of Qatari millions or some other means to have a larger platform than is warranted, than that needs to be leveled.
Marc Beckman: Are those Tucker accusations? Um, founded? Like has anybody, I've heard them too. I'm curious like though, has anybody shown exactly where that Qatari money comes from? Has it been proven? I.
Robert Spencer: entirely sure. I haven't looked into it myself, so I'll just note that allegation is out. There may not be true. He may be [00:28:00] acting entirely from conviction. I know that human nature being what it is, anybody can be corrupted, anybody can be bought, anybody can be manipulated. Uh, and these people, you know, also just human beings in general need to be aware. You shouldn't take what we're saying just at face value either. Look into what I'm saying. My books always are extensively footnoted, just hundreds and hundreds of footnotes so that people can go and check what I'm saying and make sure that what I'm saying is accurate.
And they should always do that, even with Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, that's for sure. You know, it's interesting when you talk about Qatar. Um, you know, there's another issue with regards to the almighty dollar and, um, uh, democracy and capitalism coming into play. As you're aware, president Trump and the Trump administration key cabinet members just went for a quick tour across, uh, the GCC.
They were in UAE, uh, the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And Qatar, I think they amassed [00:29:00] about true $2 trillion worth of financial value back to America, specifically as it relates to artificial intelligence. Um, but I didn't hear much from the administration as it relates to some of the things you just highlighted as far as.
You know, Qatar having Hamas leadership there, Qatar kind of celebrating antisemitism in a way. I'm sure you would agree. After October 7th, did you hear anything on your side? Is, is my assessment correct? I.
Robert Spencer: you're absolutely right it's very strange and it's a matter of tremendous concern. I mean, of course the president is a businessman. He comes from that world. He's been extraordinarily successful in making deals and he obviously thinks that he can make a deal with anybody around anything, and he did during his first term, he brought about the Abraham Accords.
John Kerry was saying you cannot possibly bring peace in the Middle East while bypassing the Palestinians. Trump did exactly that.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, [00:30:00] it's amazing.
Robert Spencer: of mutual self-interest, that he could come to accord with these states that had previously been on the other side. And so it's, it's something, it's understandable that he would want to do it, but I saw that when he met with Rah, the president of Syria, who was an Al-Qaeda guy, you know, he led an
Marc Beckman: I know.
Robert Spencer: for years
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Robert Spencer: saying, you know, you really ought to make peace with Israel. Uh, I thought, well, is he just being naive or does he have some leverage that he thinks that he can bring to bear on this? Uh, I suppose time will tell, but with Qatar, I didn't even hear him say anything like that.
Marc Beckman: Correct.
Robert Spencer: uh, those two things. His support for Israel and his friendship with Qatar are ultimately in contradiction with one another.
And whether that contradiction will come to a head while he's present or not, remains to be seen, but it's there. It's not gonna go away.
Marc Beckman: The, the, uh, conversations with Als shahara over in Syria [00:31:00] just blow my mind. I mean, we had a whole full episode, uh, about him and soft power, uh, terrorism and, and repackaging. I mean, the guy's walking around in these beautiful Tom. Award suits and, you know, giving Macron pats on the back and high fives. But I think, um, in this instance, did I, if I, again, I'll defer to you, I think I read that we actually, um, helped Syria pay off, helped als Shaara pay off some of his debt.
So I'm wondering like. Where, um, you know, where the American government is going and you remember part of Al Shara's, repackaging from Al-Qaeda, uh, you know, a true terrorist into Als. Shara at one point. His name was, um, Giani. Right. Alani. Um, so it's uh, right, right, right.
Robert Spencer: he's, uh, Abu Muhammad Al Alani is the, the, the father of Muhammad, of the Golan. He's gonna take the Golan back for Islam. In other words, take it back from Israel. And [00:32:00] so that was his norm de Gure as he as a jihadi. Now he's reverted to his birth name and yeah, he's, he's got a suit on.
So he must be a moderate.
Marc Beckman: He's gotta be Look there, you know, I don't want to just knock Trump because, um, I'm obviously a supporter and there are a lot of moving parts and he is doing, I think he is the number one best president in history of America for the Jewish people. So something that we could point to. Getting back to freedom of speeches, what he's been doing at, uh, the university level, right as it relates to Harvard and, and I, I believe.
HSS just, uh, put out a press release, uh, in conjunction with the US Department of Education surrounding Columbia. I think Columbia's next. Um, what's your take on, on, on that situation? Obviously the universities are like raging with antisemitism right now. It's so outta control, but staying on the Trump thread for a second.
Uh, do you think Trump is, is trying to, uh, get us back to some level of normalcy and that's why he's [00:33:00] instituting, uh, these measures, taking away billions of dollars from Harvard and other universities. Like what do, what do you think his end game is here? I.
Robert Spencer: that he's trying to make the universities. Into universities again for too long now they have been wastelands of far left indoctrination you have people go in and they think I'm gonna become a businessman or a doctor or a lawyer, and they just come out Antifa. And
Marc Beckman: Right.
Robert Spencer: trying to, to, to balance what the universities are. Are teaching or bring some, compel them to bring back some balance to their presentations. Uh, the universities are howling that their freedom of speech is being infringed upon, but actually when he restricts the pro Hamas rallies and demonstrations and the encampments and all that nonsense on the university campuses that we're not talking about. The freedom of speech when you [00:34:00] have people, the demonstrators at Columbia breaking into buildings and occupying the buildings and terrorizing the Jewish students and preventing them from getting to their classes that we're not talking about. Some sort of polite debate here. We're talking about thuggery that needs to be curbed and has no place in a university.
So in the first place, he's completely right to try to hold it over the universities, that they'll get no federal funding if they allow this sort of thing to continue. the ultimate goal, I mean, I remember I was at the, at at at at university back in. 1979 to 83, and even then, only one point of view really was allowed to be heard, and it was the far left point of view.
It's only gotten much exponentially worse since then. And so he, he wants to see these institutions of higher learning be that of what they've become.
Marc Beckman: It [00:35:00] seems like it's going to be very difficult to break that though, Robert, because you have, um, I think you just hinted to it, and maybe this was your point. I mean, you have decades and decades of decades of anti-Semitic ideology that's built into. Um, the curricula now at this point. So it's not just the young kids that are on the street protesting.
Maybe some of them, uh, don't even know why they're protesting or what they're fighting for, right? Like they might be pro Hamas, but they're just trying to self-actualize or find an identity similar to what we saw with the underground weathermen and all that kind of stuff back in the what seventies or whenever that was.
Um, but what, we have a situation here where the, the academics, the professors are also teaching this type of rhetoric.
Robert Spencer: and so that has to be addressed by the institutions themselves, and they have to be made to feel the pain in order to address it. And by feeling the pain, I mean that he's gonna cut off their federal funding the donors should [00:36:00] stop giving. I know so many people who are giving to their old Alma Maers because they had a wonderful time there in the fifties or something, and now they're 75 or 80, and there are billionaires. And they think that it's still the same there or still pretty much the same so that they still drop a billion or a a a, I'm sorry, a million or two on Berkeley or Stanford or Columbia. I, I know several people who have done this and I have spoken to them or tried to speak to them and say, you know, it, it's really not like it was when you were there. And these places are not really anything that you ought to support, and that is a message I think we need to take up and try to trumpet far more than it has been so that the people who are funding these massive endowments also start to make those endowments dry up. [00:37:00] And when the universities are really looking for money and really hurting and looking at having to close their doors or end some of their programs. Then I think they'll start to open up.
Marc Beckman: But it seems like Robert, the antisemitism, um, hill. Is so high up for us to climb. I mean, we, you and I just, uh, kind of glazed over the idea of like how tech is supporting and fomenting antisemitism with the social media platforms. We easily touched on academia. Um, it's. Institutional, even at the government level.
I mean, think for example, the United Nations. I think the essence of the un, it was like born out of World War II and the Holocaust, so that, you know, that would never happen again. To a certain extent, that's why it was built. And yet the UN seems to be, um, sick with antisemitism as well.
Robert Spencer: Oh, absolutely. And yeah, you're right. It's very deeply entrenched and it's very high up. But because it is a lie and because [00:38:00] it is so hateful, I'm confident that it can fall as suddenly and as quickly as the Berlin Wall came down. And, uh, you know, people of a certain age remember how surprising that was and how just a few years before that, we were hearing as a matter, uh, uh, of, of, of settled fact that the Soviet Union was here to stay.
We had to find some accommodation with it.
Marc Beckman: Yep.
Robert Spencer: it was otherwise there was just nuclear war and the destruction of the world, and so we had to have these various agreements with it and various concessions. Everybody took that for granted. And then suddenly Ronald Reagan became president. He said it was an evil empire and everybody was shocked and, and angry with him and saying, you're just gonna get the mad and it's gonna cause trouble and you're gonna cause World War iii.
And he said that it can be destroyed, it can be ended if it just a little push economically and [00:39:00] it will fall. And he turned out to be right. And so I, uh, once again, maybe I'm being naive, I. But I think that this huge, massive international superstructure that includes antisemitism can be easily destroyed. And one of the reasons why they hate Trump so much is because he is exposing how easily they can be destroyed and how vulnerable they really are. He may not even succeed. In, in pushing them over the cliff, but it can be done and I do think that it will be done within the next quarter, century or so.
Marc Beckman: Well, Robert, it's kind of interesting if you, I'm just thinking about your words as it relates to communist Russia. The so. Viet Union and, and, and comparing that to antisemitism, um, you know, the media, the legacy media plays such a significant role today with regards to, um, working as a driving force for [00:40:00] antisemitism.
So we have it in social media, but legacy media, when I turn it on for the most part, uh, there are some, there, there are, are some exceptions, uh, for sure. But. For the most part, most of the reporting today is anti-Semitic anti-Israel. It's rare that I'll come across like, you know, I could name them. Stella Escobido at OAN does an amazing job in, in telling the truth as it relates to Jews in Israel.
Um, some of my colleagues over at Fox do a phenomenal job at supporting Israel, but beyond that. There are few and far between. So I wonder if, if the media is creating, the legacy media is creating such an anti-Israel, anti-Semitic sentiment that for generations it's gonna be tough to knock. Whereas like with communism and, and the former Soviet Union, they had so many flaws, right?
They were, they were built to crumble because they couldn't even sustain a, a, um, a, a healthy. Economy, but with, you know, this hate that we're talking about, it's like a [00:41:00] poison of the mind of sorts. And it's insti, you know, it's dri driven into all of these different institutions and media is really a driving engine for it.
Legacy media. You're laughing because I'm, you see my wheels spinning and I can't, I can't get enough of it out. Right.
Robert Spencer: No, you're absolutely right. I'm, I'm actually laughing because I'm in a position in our conversation here of being the guy who's optimistic and usually I'm the guy who comes. In and makes everybody depressed. And so I, I, I find this astonishing really.
Marc Beckman: Oh boy.
Robert Spencer: fun. But, uh, I, I think here again, I've gotta say, maybe I'm being naive, but I don't see the establishment media as that all powerful anymore.
Maybe they were. A few decades ago, or when my dad was cursing at Walter Cronkite, there was just no alternative. There were the three channels and that was it. And you, you got the news from them or the newspapers and they all had the same line. And that was that I. But now there are so many alternatives, [00:42:00] and you've got the president of the United States who, while widely hated, has a considerable following and he routinely refers to them with total contempt as fake news.
And people see that and they see, yeah, they really are lying. You know, I, you're absolutely right. I read AP and Reuters and it's like reading Hamas communiques, but. Also they are being discredited. It, it,
Marc Beckman: My,
Robert Spencer: stranglehold, I do believe is lessening the fact that
Marc Beckman: my,
Robert Spencer: to have this conversation and that people will watch it and that, uh, they, I have the website and the books that I've written and other people are out there with far larger platforms than I am telling the truth than I have telling the truth about these things.
That was never true before. And so, uh, I think their end is at hand.
Marc Beckman: Robert? I, I hope so. I mean, it's amazing that you're more optimistic about it than I am, but my fear goes really to towards that younger generation, gen Alpha, because I see it, I'm around it. Um, in [00:43:00] our household specifically. So you could even look at, um, celebrity marketing and influencer marketing, where these, you know, an 8-year-old girl in New York City is watching TikTok and, you know, their favorite celebrity is going and, and, you know, speaking in a pro Hamas way.
Right. And that, that hits deep, that goes deep for these kids. Where else are they getting their education? It's their version of Tucker Carlson. Right. And I think that's problematic as well. Like we, why haven't, like, actually let me ask you like, unless you disagree, why haven't, um, American celebrities.
Stood up on the, on, you know, the side of like moral reasoning or moral clarity or just the right, the right thing. As since October 7th, it's been really very, very far and few celebrities that have stood up in support of Israel and the Jews.
Robert Spencer: ' cause they're useless. They're they're celebrities. Look, if you know, if you're an actor, what do you know? You know how to act. You know how to pretend to be somebody else. What do you know about [00:44:00] politics or, or morality? Or anything, whoever taught you to think, and then people come around and they ask you your opinions on things.
And so what opinion are you gonna choose in retail? You are going to repeat what you think is going to be the opinion that makes the most people like you because what you want is people to like you, so they'll watch your movies or buy your records or. By your streams or whatever. And, um, that's all they're interested in and that's all they know. And so the idea of people taking celebrities seriously in the first place is something that also needs to be challenged and rejected. But here again, I don't share the, the, the, the pessimism about the younger generation either because I have experienced young people I know are thoroughly sick of the total hegemony. Of the leftist indoctrination that they receive at school, that they hear from all the [00:45:00] celebrities that they get from everywhere, and a lot of them are growing very skeptical, and that includes being skeptical of the hatred of Israel. There are also young people who think that they're being brave and rebellious by coming out as neo-Nazi or as at very least as against Israel.
Because they think that the establishment is pro-Israel. Well, obviously the establishment is deeply anti-Israel, and so young people have the tendency to rebel in the teen years. I think that that is working in the favor of truth and righteousness at this point.
Marc Beckman: Well, it's interesting when you talk about anti-Israel sentiment and then open the lens on a, on an international level. Um, help me get through this, this thought, but I don't know how many. Um, Arab nations exist and how many of them are democracies, but going back to your earlier, um.
Robert Spencer: Arab nations exist. None are democracies. 56 Muslim nations. Go ahead, sorry.
Marc Beckman: So, so going back to the 56 [00:46:00] number and to your earlier comment where you're saying like, within the Koran there is rhetoric that calls for the death of, for the killing of Jews. Yet here are these nations surrounding Israel and none of them are democracies. They'll never allow for a difference of opinion to rise to the top right.
Theoretically. How can Israel survive such a a mindset?
Robert Spencer: Israel can survive by being strong. And that actually is an Islamic theological principle that you do not wage jihad against an enemy who has more than twice your strength and you have no chance of winning that. You will find that in manuals of Islamic law. And so the idea that Israel can solve this problem and live in peace on the basis of some negotiated settlement, that's a pipe dream.
It's never gonna happen. The two state solution, total hogwash, there will never be. A state, a Palestinian state that will live in peace with Israel. It will [00:47:00] just become a new jihad base to destroy Israel. But if Israel stands strong and is stronger than its neighbors, then it can survive. This is, in other words, a problem that cannot be solved, but it can be managed.
Americans don't like problems that cannot be solved, and I'm sorry to have to give you one, but now I'm back in my more familiar mode of being the guy with the bad news. Uh, the, the Israel can survive and I hope it will. And the remember that while the Quran teaches those things, that doesn't mean that every Muslim in the world believes them and is going to act upon them. The Quran does teach those things, and as long as there are believers in the Quran and Muhammad and Islam, there will be people who think they have to fight to destroy Israel. there are also all kinds of other variables. have different priorities and and, and interests and so on. People can be made to make agreements on pragmatic basis, on a pragmatic basis, [00:48:00] as Trump showed with the Abraham Accords long they last.
I don't think they're gonna last forever, but they have postponed, at least the Jihad imperative. For, for those countries that are involved at this point. There's also other things like the, the total fatalism in Islam. do you know John Roy Carlson? He was an Armenian American journalist during the war, during World War ii.
He actually went undercover and Nazi groups in the United States, wrote a very interesting book about that. And then after World War ii, he went to Egypt. And he wrote a book called From Cairo to Damascus, where he spent a lot of time with the Arab jihadis who were trying to destroy the new state of Israel, and he traveled with Egyptian troops to the borders of Israel, and he witnessed the Arab troops.
There were no Palestinians yet, the Arab troops firing all their ammunition into the [00:49:00] air. In the morning and then go in and playing dominoes all day and they would say, Allah will guide the bullets. And so, so you wonder why Israel was able to, with hardly any weaponry, hardly any army in 1948, just after it declared independence, Israel was able to defeat five Arab nations.
Was that kind of thinking. And so, uh, do I think that Israel is ultimately gonna be destroyed by the jihadis? It's possible if they let their guard down as they did on October 7th, they keep doing that. If they grow complacent, if they retain their ignorance about Islam and continue to disregard its importance in, in, in motivating the Palestinian Arabs to wage jihad against it.
But if they are smart and if they stay strong, they can prevail.
Marc Beckman: Robert, do you think BB Netanyahu's behavior since October 7th has hurt Jews worldwide?
Robert Spencer: I don't see how [00:50:00] he's been determined to defend Israel. He has done so with great constraints from the Biden administration and some unwarranted constraints and unexpected ones, unfortunately, from the Trump administration as well. And yet he has stood strong as just as I was saying, needed to be done and he has. Decimated Hamas decimated Hezbollah. I, Iran has currently no significant air defenses after the Israeli airstrikes of October, 2024. Uh, the Iranian regime falls. The entire situation in the Middle East will change, and that could happen within the timeline of this administration. And so the, the people who are ganging up on him, we have to remember that they have been on the side of the Jihad against Israel.
I. The Biden administration, which financed Hamas financed Iran. They, uh, were, were trying to get Netanyahu out financing the [00:51:00] demonstrations against Netanyahu before October 7th. And so, uh, I don't think these are people that, uh, decent people need to credit.
Marc Beckman: Robert, it's been such a pleasure speaking with you today. I appreciate all your time. Um, we, we close the show with every guest in a similar fashion. Basically what I do is I create a lead question for our guests, um, and we lead with the name of the show Some Future Day, which is a cool James Joyce reference.
Um, are you game,
Robert Spencer: Yes, but tell me again how, how it works. I, I didn't
Marc Beckman: so I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a lead. I'm gonna create the beginning of a sentence and you're gonna finish it.
Robert Spencer: Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay.
Marc Beckman: All right, you got this. So in some future day, antisemitism will come to an end because.
Robert Spencer: People will realize that the dividing line between good and evil does not run between one group and another, but down the middle of every human heart. As Sol Genson said, [00:52:00] and thus the idea of the demonization of one group as uniquely evil is out of focus and inaccurate in terms of the reality of human nature.
Marc Beckman: Robert, thank you so much for joining me today on Some Future Day. It truly was a pleasure.
Robert Spencer: Thank you very much.
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