Some Future Day

Marc Beckman: [00:01:00] [00:02:00] Aviva Siegel, it's such an honor to have you join me today on Some Future Day. Aviva, most people watching this show don't know who you are, where you're from, what your background is. Can you introduce yourself and just take a second to talk about where you were born and your life, your [00:03:00] career, your, your family?
Aviva Siegel: Thank you for having me and thank you everybody for listening to me because it's very important for me to, to share what I went through and what I'm going through with everybody that listened to me. So, I am 63 years old and I was born in South Africa and moved to Israel when I was nine years, when I was nine years old. I've been living on a kibbutz. It's a small community that everybody knows everybody. I was brought up on kibbutz that's called Kibbutz Sora'at, and then I moved to Kibbutz Faraza, and I'm married to Keith. That's the most lovely sweetheart in the whole world. And he comes from North Carolina, Chapel Hill.
So we together have four children and five grandchildren, and we love them. [00:04:00] and we want them to have a quiet life with no worrying about Keith or worrying about me and now everybody's just so worried about what's happening with Keith still in Gaza and hearing all the stories from me is just too much for them and we really need Keith and all the hostages back as soon as possible.
So I have been a teacher for young ones from the age of three months until four years. And for more than 43 years, and I love my job and I'd love to go back to my job. To wake up in the morning for me is to run to work. And I used to always say that, that people pay me for the, for, for doing what I'm doing, but I think I should pay them for what I'm doing because that's what I felt.
And I just love the little children. They just, I just love being around them. They're just so special [00:05:00] and, and precious. And it's just filled my life with love. And I love animals. I used to have a horse and he was mine and he used
Marc Beckman: Where was the horse? In Israel?
Aviva Siegel: In Israel, yes, I used to take, when I was, when I was young, before I met Keith, I must have been maybe 16, 17, 18, I used to take my horse with 400 sheep and 4 dogs out to eat.
And, It was just lovely. I just loved it. It was, Kibbutz Soraa, where I used to live on, is close to a little river. It's, it's very little and I used to like sit next to the water and listen to the water and look after the sheep with the dogs. The dogs loved me. I loved them and I loved my horse. Whenever I used to come and come and take him, he loved me so much he used to lick me.
Marc Beckman: Haha, that's [00:06:00] amazing.
Aviva Siegel: Yeah.
Marc Beckman: What was the horse's name?
Aviva Siegel: the horse's name was, name was Jampano. Yeah. He was, he was beautiful.
Marc Beckman: So Aviva, how did you and Keith meet? Where did you meet? How did you meet this guy from North Carolina?
Aviva Siegel: Well, this guy, Keith, that I met, I fell in love in, I think, less than a second, because that's exactly what happened. It's something about the way he spoke and moved his body. And of course the way he looked, because I was young those days, you look at those things too. And he was just so sweet and so gentle.
And he really touched. The inside of my heart when I met him for the first time and I remember myself like sitting outside wherever I could just waiting for him to pass and, and saying to myself, Oh, there he is, there he is. And I just stare at him walking. And that's, that's [00:07:00] Keith and I and Keith. Went back to the States.
He was supposed to, um, study in university in North Carolina, but he decided to stay and and stay because, because he fell in love with me. We were introduced by kid's, brother's, wife. She comes from the same community as me, kibbutz, her name is Shelly, and Lee and Shelly are buried. for 44 years already and they're part of our family and just went, went well.
Marc Beckman: Is Keith also Like, you have such a love and passion for children as an educator. Is Keith also Um Does he also have that big heart for children?
Aviva Siegel: He loves, I don't, I wouldn't say that for all children, but he loves his grandchildren and his grandchildren love him well. [00:08:00] They can't wait for him to come back.
Marc Beckman: How many grandchildren do you and Keith have? Um,
Aviva Siegel: and we were supposed to go on a, a radio show and we were taking my grandson that, his name is Ori, he's 10 years old.
And my daughter like, spoke to him and said, or Iki, you're gonna come and you're gonna, and they're gonna talk, talk to you about your Saba, Keith, uh, your grandfather. And uh, so what do you wanna say? And you need to be ready. If they're going to ask you questions. So he said that, that he wants to say that he loves playing basketball with his grandfather and to read books together and just to talk.
They used to sit and talk these two for hours. And that's Keith. He loves to talk to anybody that'll talk to him. That's 10 years old, his grandson. He loves it even more. And [00:09:00] when, when we were walking, I asked Sohoiki, if anybody would ask you, what kind of grandmother am I? So he looked at me and he said, it's always a pleasure to be with you.
And you love me and you hug me all the time. And I feel your love. And I know that he does that with Keith because he's just sensitive, just like Keith. And that just means so much.
Marc Beckman: so Keith, Keith likes basketball, huh?
Aviva Siegel: Keith doesn't like basketball at all, but he'll do anything for his grandchildren. I remember him playing, playing the last time and you know, he was, it was hot, it was summer and he was ready, ready and sweating. And I went to him and asked Keith, so don't you think you've had, you've had enough, you've been playing for maybe an hour?
And he said, no, no, no, don't worry. He came back, poor thing, he had to sit down. His back was cold, he couldn't move his body, but he played with his grandson.
Marc Beckman: I love that. That's so beautiful. I asked you about the basketball [00:10:00] because here in the States, Amari Stoudemire was a New York Knick. He was a major, major athlete. He was my client for years. And then I don't know if that name rings a bell, Amari Stoudemire, but he went to Israel and I believe he even invested in a basketball team.
He played there for a while, invested in, he's a big advocate. He has for years. Um, he's been a, Amari Stoudemire has been a big advocate of Israel and he actually is Jewish also. It's um, it's interesting. What, what about Keith's work? What does he do? What does Keith do for a living? What does he love? The way you spoke about your love of being an educator is very interesting.
Did he, does, does Keith love work as well?
Aviva Siegel: Keith runs to work too. Keith was a rip. He used to teach doctors about medicines and psychiatrists medicines. So he used to work with many, many doctors in Israel. So many people know him and he loved his job. One of the medicines that he [00:11:00] worked on. He worked for 15 days, 15 years on the same medicine with the same doctors.
He used to teach them how to handle the medicine and he really loved it. It's, it's very interesting. I used to come with kids sometimes and listen to lectures about his medicine. And it was very, very interesting. You know, the way everybody minds works and everybody's just so different. And so, yes, so many people like, you know, I walk around Tel Aviv, And people see Me, because they know me already, because I've been talking all over and all over the world, and I'm always wearing Keith's t shirt.
He's close to my heart, and they stop me and tell me how much they love Keith and how much they miss him, and what a special person Keith is, that he, he just is able to touch any human being. You know, that when he was, I don't know, maybe 25 years old, he went to [00:12:00] study Arabic because there were Arabs working on Kibbutz Karaza from Gaza.
And he, and I asked him, why, why go study Arabic? And he said, you know, I want to talk to the people that come from Gaza while they work here. I want to be their friend because I'm sure that they're interesting people. They come from Gaza and he did. And he used to come home from work late. And I used to ask him, where were you?
And he said, no, I spoke, I spoke to some, somebody that comes from Gaza, I can't remember their names, and he used to talk to them for hours. So he wanted to welcome anybody and he's just got that, he touches everybody's heart.
Marc Beckman: So he was welcome, he's a welcoming person, but he, he also, uh, fostered relationships with his gaas and neighbors, it sounds like. These weren't just like, um, it wasn't like just in passing. Keith went out of his way to learn the language and, and befriend [00:13:00] them as good humans.
Aviva Siegel: Yeah, and you know, I just remembered today because I went to the supermarket and there was somebody that, um, that he forgot, he forgot a can of pickles and he didn't pay for it. So I said, I better pay for it and run and look for him. So that's what I did. I paid for the pickles and I ran and looked for that person that didn't, that forgot it for his lunch.
And I remembered, it just like gave me a flashback, living on Fraser. They were building houses, new houses, and I used to get up early in the morning and bake them cookies and bring them cookies with coffee while they were working. And I remember that they were people that came from Gaza to work and build the buildings.
And I used to come to them and they, it just filled my heart to give them something because to make them feel welcomed. though we didn't talk, because I didn't know any Arabic and [00:14:00] they didn't know how to talk to me,
Marc Beckman: How often did you cook, did you bake cookies for everybody?
Aviva Siegel: you know as long as it takes to make a house. I don't know how long that is, but it took a while.
Marc Beckman: It's been a long time, that's incredible. Aviva, are you and Keith religious Jewish people?
Aviva Siegel: No, no, I want to tell you, but it's going to be hard for people that do believe. No, I don't believe. I don't believe in God. I believe in luck. I believe in love. Um, and I believe that things happen. And, you know, just like what happened to Keith and I, we were kidnapped from a house with our pajamas. Things just happen.
And my next door neighbors, They must have been, they had their families, so they had their kids with their grandchildren, then there must have been at least 12 people at home. And the Hamas terrorists didn't take them. But Keith and I, they took us. So I believe in that. [00:15:00] Keith, I think that he's not sure about.
God, but it does believe in something more than I do. I just believe in getting up in the morning and living. And what happens, happens. And that's just life.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, when you talk about you, you and Keith being home, um, when these Hamas terrorists entered, you were in your pajamas, um, did you, were you aware that they were coming? Did you know, or did it just like, what was that moment like when they, when they, the terrorists came to your door, were you hiding? Did they just attack you?
Come through the door. Like, what was that second like for you and Keith?
Aviva Siegel: Well, well, I better not start crying because I might. Um, it all started at half past six in the morning and there were missiles on Kwarazan. We've been suffering from rockets from Gaza for more than, more than 20 years. I, I used to hide [00:16:00] myself. I used to hear the whistle and see the rocket coming towards Kwarazan, towards me.
And I used to hide myself behind trees because there was no alarms. And at home, while we were at home, the whole family used to run into the shower. And I know that now you're not allowed to run into the show. It's not a safe place because the ceramics can cut you, but we did that for years. And we didn't think that anything different was happening on the 7th of October.
And there were two alarms and we ran, at that time we had a little shelter. We ran to our little shelter and we didn't even close the door or we didn't even close the window. And I remember ourselves like bending down and saying, okay, in a second, it's going to finish. But we left the little shelter and from the window we can see Gaza and we could, we could hear all the whistles of the, of the rockets going all over Israel.
It [00:17:00] sounded like the end of the world. It just sounded like the end of the world. And I was shaking. And in two seconds later, we were back into our little shelter and we were disconnected from, um, from internet. So we didn't know what's happening. And I remember myself writing to my family, can anybody tell us what's happening, what's happening in Israel and what's happening on Kfar Aza?
And nobody answered. And just a couple of weeks ago, I asked my sister, why didn't you answer what I asked? And she said that she didn't, because she knew from the, from the news she did, she had the news on the internet, and the internet, that she knew. What was happening and she didn't want to frighten us so we didn't know we were just sitting there while the rockets were coming and coming and coming and it was very very noisy and I was scared I was shaking Keith was trying to relax me down and we heard the Hamas terrorist shooting and somebody [00:18:00] wrote on a WhatsApp group of Kralaza, that I belong to, that she can hear noises that she's never heard before and that was the Hamas killing people.
So we understood that there's terrorists on the kibbutz from that WhatsApp group and that people have been killed because they told us that one person had been killed and that's all we knew. And I remember looking at Keith in the eyes and saying, I can't believe it. I just can't believe that people are being, being killed. And I was in a complete and utterly shock. I was shaking. Keith was trying to calm me down. He's very calm, Keith. When I, when I get scared like that because I get, I'm scared of a lot of things and he really knows how to calm me down and he was just calming me down and then the shooting came closer and closer to the house while my son, Shai, that's 40 years old, told us that he's holding his fingers and then he can hear.
Arabic [00:19:00] outside is wrong. And that broke me down. And we got disconnected from my son. And I was just trying to think what happened to him, if they killed him. And then I said to myself, I'm sure that they killed my son because he's got a dog and she's not a dog. She's a dog person. She's 13 years old. And I'm sure that she, that he tried to protect her and they must have killed her. And they must have killed him because he wanted to protect his dog. And. I was just shaking and then 15 terrorists just opened the shelter, the door, even though it was written locked and keep locked, locked the door. And they shoved themselves in while they were shooting at us. They, what saved our lives is kids.
Put his head on his knees and his hands on his head. And I just stood next to Keith and started screaming. I didn't know that any human being could scream like that. It came from [00:20:00] the inside of my stomach. And I remember them screaming at us and they pulled Keith and they tore his shirt. And I remember the shots.
Next to my, you know, you can see like the shots of the fire of the bullets next to my feet. And one of the bullets hit Keith. And while they took us, they pushed Keith and I, and Keith fell and they broke his ribs. So it was Keith that was bleeding with his ribs broken. And they took us, they took us in Keith's car with Keith and I sitting in Keith's car with one of the Hamas terrorists with a knife.
So, I was walking in front of my face and another one in front, with a gun in front of our faces. And we arrived to Gaza after seeing on Friday lots and lots of terrorists shouting on the grass and around houses and we saw houses that [00:21:00] were on fire already. When we arrived to Gaza, I think that the whole of Gaza was outside clapping their hands while kids and I were crying.
In the car, the civilians, people, I remember seeing older people with sticks and young children and babies on hands and they were just standing outside their houses and welcoming us while we were shaking and crying and they were clapping their hands, they were happy. They just knew that we're coming and we didn't understand what are we doing in Gaza with our pajamas?
And I remember the first day asking myself all the time, what am I doing with my pajamas in Gaza? And what is Keith doing there with his pajamas? And when we arrived to Gaza, they took us down underneath the ground.
Marc Beckman: into one of those tunnels, Aviva?
Aviva Siegel: yes. And I remember [00:22:00] the Hamas terrorists standing at the bottom of the ground.
And doing this for me to come down. I'll never forget what he looks like. He was smiling. He was just so happy. And I was shaking. I could hardly hold the ladder going down because me and the ladder were shaking together. And I told Keith, please, you look after me at the back and I'll look after you while I walk because it was dark.
And I remember telling Keith all the time, you need to bend your head. You need to bend your head because the arches were like falling into the sand where we were. And you had to really, really bend down to go down. You couldn't even stand and walk down.
Marc Beckman: Was it pitch black, Aviva? Was it, was there, was there lighting? Was it?
Aviva Siegel: it was dark. It was very, very dark. The Hamas terrorist had like a little torch that he looked after himself while he was walking, but he didn't think about us. And, and we were [00:23:00] walking and walking and walking until we got to this little arch that was open with three yoga mats and they told us to sit.
Keith could hardly sit because of his ribs and his pants were full of blood. And about five minutes later, some guy from Kibbutz Faraza came in and I'll never forget that in my life. He was full of blood from his head. His legs, he was just full of blood. And you know, I got up and I gave him a hug with the blood.
I remember the smell of the blood on his toes. But he was, he looked like he was just so scared.
Marc Beckman: how old was he,
Aviva Siegel: Young, he's still in Gaza. You know that, I always say lately, that if anybody would have seen us, and seen us the first day in Gaza, what we looked like, [00:24:00] and how scared we were, and what they did to us, nobody would have left us there for another minute.
But unfortunately, I'm here just to tell you, and to talk about what happened. And he had glasses. in his feet because they didn't let him put any shoes on and they walked him through the grass, glass, so he could hardly walk. He was injured and most of the blood on his legs. were from the dog that they killed.
And that finished me because then I was sure that my son is dead. And from that moment, for 51 days, I was sure that they killed my son because of a dog, his dog. And then five minutes later, a family came down from Kwaraza and the mother couldn't sit down. It was her with her daughter, 17, and two boys, 9 and 11.
And the children sat down. And I gave him a hug. [00:25:00] And the mother was just, she couldn't sit. And she looked at me, she said, they killed my daughter. They killed my husband. And they killed him in front of my eyes. My daughter, she fainted. And they told me to wake her up. And I, I just couldn't. She didn't wake up.
And they shot her in the face. And they shot her husband, the father. So I looked at the kids and I said to them, you know, I want to tell you something. Your father is a hero. He wanted to look after you and that's why they killed him and that's how it started in Gaza. And then I was just trying to figure out what am I doing there.
I was in a complete and utterly shock and they handcuffed the boy with, you know, a piece of plastic that you can't move your hands and you can hardly move. And after a couple of hours, he brought something to cut it [00:26:00] off because they decided to take it off. And while he did that, he cut his hand and this poor guy, he jumped and screamed.
And that was the moment that I realized and understood that I'm going to go through a lot of hell, that I'm going to go through a lot of moments that aren't going to be easy for me. Because for somebody to do that, he could have done it in a gentle way and not cut his hand. Especially the way he looked, full of blood all over.
He was, he had cuts all over because they hit him and they opened his skin by beating him up with guns. So that was a moment that I said to myself, you're going to go through worse, just prepare yourself. And I think that's the most important thing that I went through there with myself, knowing and preparing myself because I [00:27:00] and I wasn't surprised.
Marc Beckman: You weren't surprised that, that you were being treated this way?
Aviva Siegel: From that minute, I wasn't surprised. I understood. Who's, who's treating me? I understood that the terrorists, that's exactly what they do. That's their behavior and we really went through, I call it, we went through too much. I went through too much and to think about Keith, still in Gaza, trying to survive.
Because when I, when I left Keith, I gave him a hug and I told Keith, you be strong for me and I'll be strong for you. And you know, there's so many moments that I say to myself, maybe it'll be better for Keith not to be alive anymore and not to suffer, but then it hits me and I say to myself, Keith, my husband is doing everything, everything he [00:28:00] can to keep himself alive.
to come back to me. And I know it's normal for me to think like that because I do not want him to suffer. And I'm just a human being. I don't want him to suffer. And I want him back. And a year and two months is too much for me.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, how did you, when you, when you mentally crossed that Rubicon and you said this is going to be an ongoing situation, how, did you have any like technique mentally to cope with that uncertainty of fear and horror of what was to come?
Aviva Siegel: Well, every time I was scared, I used to sing the song in English. I don't know how I did it, but it just happened. I used to sing the song of one, two, back on my shoe, three, four, knock on the door. That every American knows that [00:29:00] song, but I used to sing it to my children and I used to sing that all the time and repeat it and repeat it every time I was scared.
And then some of the times I used to say the names of the children that sit in the table with me in the kindergarten. So I used to go through their names, but slowly, slowly, slowly, and, and then one of the times all the buildings that we were, all the missiles that went to Israel used to come out and we were lying on filthy, dirty mattresses on the floor.
That's how they treated us. With no sheets and we were filthy dirty because we didn't take any showers nearly ever, only a couple with, washed ourselves with a little bit of salty water. So we used to lie and I used to look at the ceiling every time the missiles used to go to from Gaza all the way to Israel.
And the Hamas terrorists used to come [00:30:00] in and clap their hands and say, beautiful, it's us. It's us. Killing people in Israel. They loved that. And I was scared. I was scared because the, the building used to shake and I used to count the cracks in the wall to see how strong the building is. Because every time it happened, I was sure that the building is going to fall on us.
So one of the days I looked at Keith and the girls that I was with and I asked them, aren't you scared? Because I'm scared. And they said, no, we've gotten used to it. So I looked at Keith and I said, how come I haven't gotten used to it? And that was something like four weeks after being there. And Keith said to me, whenever you skate and whenever it happens, just tell yourself it's far and you're not the target.
It's far and you're not the target. I've said that so many times, just so many [00:31:00] times. And that really protected me. So I want to thank, thank Keith for giving that, just a couple of words.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, it sounds, if I understand correctly, and forgive me if I'm not following, it sounds So, it sounds like this is a different location you were in from where you went initially. Um, am I correct? Were you in more than one location while you were held captive in Gaza?
Aviva Siegel: Keith and I were moved 13 times, 13. Can you believe that? We met lots of Hamas terrorists, and each one of them was, was worse and brutal and rude and cruel to us more than the other. In one of the places that they took us. They took us underneath the ground, and I nearly died. I nearly died, Keith nearly died.
I touched death. They just left us there. There was no oxygen [00:32:00] for us to breathe, so they just left us there with no water and no food. And we were lying there, and then Keith looked at me, and he said, Aviva, I feel that I can't breathe. And he was like this, and I saw, and I saw what he felt, because I felt exactly the same. I couldn't breathe. But he had the guts to tell me that. So I told him, keep this low down. and try and breathe. And you know, I want to tell you that I was scared to look at Keith. I was scared to look at his chest going up and down and I was scared that he would die in front of me.
And I remember myself just lying there trying to breathe. It was like I ran a marathon and couldn't catch my breath and just praying that I'd die before Keith. And I want to tell you that if [00:33:00] they wouldn't have taken me out after more than a couple of days, Keith and I would have been dead.
Marc Beckman: while you, while you were down there, they just left you, was there like no water, no bathroom, no food, it was just they left you there to rot, essentially.
Aviva Siegel: there was a bathroom that you could walk to with no lights, and we had a headlight that didn't work some of the times. The bottom was with no water, and it was full. I don't want to tell you what it was full of, but it was full already. We did have not, no, any way to clean our hands. And it was disgusting.
I was just so filthy, dirty all the time.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, when you and I met in New York City a few weeks ago, you helped me unlock, um, like kindness that I lost during this time [00:34:00] period, and you are, like this story is horrific, um Were there any moments of humanity that you experienced from the terrorists? Was there ever, like you just mentioned to me, that as you moved across these 13 different locations, each location, the terrorists became worse and worse and worse.
But was there ever a moment where humanity broke through the terrorism? Um, and you felt, uh, or you were surprised by that special moment between you and the captor,
Aviva Siegel: Um, there was one moment that I was surprised. First of all, I want to tell you that sometimes maybe they were a little bit nicer to us, but five minutes later, they wanted to kill us. or starve us or eat in front of us while we're starving. But there was one moment, if you can call it human, [00:35:00] Keith tried to get up from the mattress on the floor.
He needed to go to the bathroom. And when he did that, he fell because he was so weak. And that was not, that was after not eating for nearly 20 hours. Because they, they starved us for 24 hours. So after 20 hours, Keith got up to go to the bathroom and he fell. So the tourists, one of them, brought him to dates and he waited.
And we asked, when are we going to get some food after more than 20, 20 hours? And the terrorist looked in our eyes and said, it takes a long time to make food. And after 24 hours of not getting anything, except in those two dates that he gave Keith because he saw him falling, they brought us each a half a piece of pita that was dry [00:36:00] from a couple of days ago. I needed water to, to swallow it down. And that was the moment that I started keeping pieces of pita for Keith. Because I was scared that it happened to him again, and one of the hardest things for me. In Gaza, by far, was to see them torture Keith and torture the girls. I'm a witness to one of the girls that one of the Hamas terrorists touched. And you know, I'm so proud of her, because two minutes after he did that, she smiled to him as if nothing happened. Because she had to. Because she just had to. We had to say that everything's okay. We weren't allowed to cry. Can you believe a 63 year old lady Seeing that and feeling that [00:37:00] while I wanted to cry and I could not, I used to lie on the mattress and hide myself crying, put my arm on my face that nobody will see that I'm crying because if they did, I was scrimped at.
I
Marc Beckman: was, was that type of a, a, of an act, um, that you saw with regards to the terrorist and one of the girls a regular occurrence? Is that something you saw more than once?
Aviva Siegel: was told after that one thing happened that Keith asked the girls not to tell me difficult things that they go through. Because I'm too sensitive. So I do not know what I know, what I don't know. I just know what I do know. And that particular time, I was there. And I felt that in my bones, in my heart, and wanted to scream.
And I wanted to scream at the terrorist, [00:38:00] how could he dare to do that to a young girl that has never, ever been touched? And then, one of the days, they took one of the girls, and they beated her into pieces. They just beated her. And when she came back, she was red. Her hair was standing. They handcuffed her, and her hands were red for five days after they did it.
And that's how tight it was on her. And they just hit her with sticks and with guns. And while they did that, one of the terrorists came into the room that I was sitting and hit the door and hit the wall and he nearly hit us. And when she came back, I wanted to die because I couldn't even hug her because I wasn't allowed. The only thing that I could do is to look in her eyes and tell her that I love her. She sat on the floor next to us, [00:39:00] just like a child that's two years old. She was crying and shaking, and you could see she had marks all over her body from them hitting her.
And I asked her after a couple of hours, How come you didn't scream? And she said that she didn't want to give them the pleasure. And I said to her, I wanted to scream for you.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, how old was she or is she
Aviva Siegel: young. They thought she's lying, so they hit her. And can you imagine them putting black material on Keith's eyes and my eyes? Keith's 65 years old. And he had to walk himself, and I had to walk myself, in pitch dark stairs, trying to figure out where to put my next foot. And when I [00:40:00] couldn't find the next foot, step to put my foot. I remember taking my hair and throwing me into a car. I didn't see. I didn't see the car. I didn't see the next step. Why? Why? Why do people behave like that? How could people sit and eat in front of people that they know they haven't eaten because they didn't give them food for 24 hours? How can they drink water? And I know there was water in the tap. Well, we dehydrated and we have to go to the stage that Eddie wants. Everyone, once in a while, takes one sip, because that's the water that we have. Or they drink from the bottle they give us. And the little girl is not prepared to drink it because it disgusts her.
Because they disgust him, the way they treated us. [00:41:00] And I had to force her to drink because she, I was scared that she would dehydrate. There wasn't a minute, a minute that I could just like relax myself. I lost 10 kilos. in Gaza because they starved me. And when I came back, I could hardly walk because they did not let me move, move my body.
Marc Beckman: Aviva? When, when you talk about, um, being released, I mean, you're talking about when you came back to Israel, right? When you say you came back, you mean you came back to Israel after losing all of that weight and you were injured, et cetera. How did you discover, like, was there any, uh, communication to you from the, the terrorists about the outside world?
How did you discover that you were being released?
Aviva Siegel: uh, the terrorist used to tell us all the time that [00:42:00] there's not Israel anymore. Israel does not exist, that the whole world is bombing Israel. And that we'll never go back to Israel and that we're going to stay there. And I believed it. I don't know why I believed it, but I believed them. I thought that I was forgotten.
I thought that nobody will ever, ever find us because we were underneath the ground or in a house, in a, in a small room. Sometimes they used to lock us, just lock us in a small room. And when they came to tell me that I'm going to Israel, I didn't believe them. I didn't believe any word they said, but I had to listen to them.
Because I was scared of them and I had to listen to everything they said because that's we had to do because if not, they would have killed us.
They said that I'm going to Israel. I did not believe them and they did not. [00:43:00] Let me go say goodbye to Keith. So, you know, I, with my hand, moved the terrorist and said, I'm not going without saying goodbye to Keith. And that was just after arguing with him that I want to stay here with Keith. If Keith's not coming with me, I'm not going anywhere. And I argued for a couple of minutes until I
Marc Beckman: Did you, did you want to stay? Did you, were you seriously, um, committed to staying?
Aviva Siegel: yes, because I didn't
Marc Beckman: because of your love of Keith,
Aviva Siegel: because of my love of Keith, because of my love to the girls. And I was worried. I didn't know what they're going to do to me. I didn't know if they're going to rape me, if they're going to kill me, where they're taking me. I couldn't, I couldn't know that because I used to lie all the time. And then Keith was in the room next door. I went to him and I found him [00:44:00] lying. on a faulty dirty mattress and looking at the ceiling just like what we used to do all the time because that's what we did. That's exactly what I did for 51 days. Kept quiet. I wasn't allowed to move or feel or anything. So I went to Keith and I begged down to him and I said to Keith, you be strong for me and I'll be strong for you.
And Keith looked at me in, in my eyes. And he didn't say a word. He was in a complete and utterly shock. And I was thinking like, you know, how come I thought about those sentences to say to Keith? And I'm sure now that just by looking at Keith and looking at the sadness in his eyes, While I came to him, seeing him in the next room, on the floor like that, that made me [00:45:00] say those words, be strong for me and I'll be strong for you.
And in April, there was a video released of Keith that I did not see, because, It's too hard for me to see the sadness in his eyes, and, because I know exactly what he feels,
Marc Beckman: you won't look at it. Even till today, you've never looked at that video.
Aviva Siegel: know, I've, I've seen one, one picture, and the picture means so much to me. He's thin, you can see all his bones, yeah?
He looks like he's 20 years older than what he looks like, what, what he used to look like. He looks sad. pale and in the video he's crying and he's begging and then I remembered while they came to video us the Hamas terrorists one of the times I told Keith that I feel that I'm going to cry while I talk. [00:46:00] While they video me and Keith said, no, Viva, keep strong. Keep strong for your family. Keep strong for your children. You do not want them to see you upset. It'll break their heart. And Keith is in that video crying. So I dunno what that means if he just couldn't handle himself. Or if you want us to know that he's in bad shape, but I'm just a human being with a heart and I'm finished. I'm really finished. I can't handle this anymore.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, I think you're one of the bravest, strongest people I've met in my life. And I know that you can handle it. And I know you will go on. I met you briefly in person and I know you have, you have the strength. Aviva, do you feel, do you feel free today?
Aviva Siegel: No, not at all. I'm still in Gaza. And you know, [00:47:00] I'm strong enough to scream for Keith and to scream for the girls and that's what I'm doing. I'm screaming Every day, a couple of days, a couple of times a day. Today, it's my fourth time that I'm talking and I'm going to talk another time with 400 people in some place and that's what I do.
I scream for them because they're not yet to scream for themselves and I just can't believe it that they're still there. I can't believe all the human beings that have heard my story, that know exactly what I went through, that can endow themselves. Leave human beings, no matter what they are, if they're Jews or Christians or, or anybody in a situation like that.
Because we, you know, that [00:48:00] three months ago, Hirsch, an American hostage, was brought back dead. And the conditions that they found him, were the worst conditions in Earth. He was so sick. He lost half of his body weight and he was sick, dehydrated. I was sure then, three months ago, when the whole world saw what happened to Hirsch and the other five hostages, that it wouldn't take more than a couple of hours to take all the hostages out.
And three months have passed. A year and nearly two months have passed. Keith, my Keith, and the girls that I was with, and all the hostages, are still there underneath the ground. Trying to keep themselves alive.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, is something wrong with humanity right now? [00:49:00] Is something wrong with humanity?
Aviva Siegel: I don't understand. You know, I'm trying, I'm trying my best to understand what's happening. How come? How come? I'm trying my best to understand how Hamas terrorists treated me, 63 years old person, like they did. And Keith, it should not be allowed. It should not be allowed anywhere in the world. And you know, there's Thai guys there, and Philippine guys there, and there's Arabs.
That were taken. It's not only Jews, it's not nothing to do only with Jews. It's the cruelest thing ever. And talking about the Holocaust that they used to hard food, I did that. I did that for Keith and starve myself. 'cause it was [00:50:00] easier for me not to eat, but to keep it for Keith, it should not be allowed.
Marc Beckman: So you would, you would take the little food you were given and hide it so that the terrorists didn't see and save it for your husband so that he can eat.
Aviva Siegel: Yes, and you know, once they gave us each a date and I took the date and I covered it with a tissue and I put it underneath the mattress for Keith. And the day after they picked the mattresses out and they took them out to, to, um, to broom the room with the broom and they threw my date away and I cried because it was for Keith. One date.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, Keith hears you. I feel strong that Keith hears you. I, I hope the world [00:51:00] hears you. There's a um, You know, a lot of hope now that the American government is changing, um, from President Biden to President Trump. if you can give a message directly to the new American administration, to the new American president, to President Trump, what would you say to him today?
Aviva Siegel: First of all, I want to ask President Biden and Trump to work together and not to wait for the 20th of January because it might be too late. So I'm asking them to work together and I think by them working together, we'll show the world. Two people that think different, that dream different, that want different, can work together and that means that evil can, evil and good, can come together and be better.
We need this [00:52:00] world to be a better world for everybody and them for taking them out will mean that this whole region will change in a better way because everybody here deserves that and that's what we're doing. Israel is going through such a hard time with this war, and we need it to change. People need to go back to their homes, to their lives, and it just should happen.
And the worst thing is that we don't know anything about Keith. And I just want to scream aloud it needs to happen because I want Keith to come home alive and I want all the hostages to come home alive. We've become like one big huge family, all the family's hostages. And if any hostage, anything happens to any hostage, it'll be like my family. And I'm begging, I'm begging them [00:53:00] to help and get them out.
Marc Beckman: So I'd like to talk to you a little bit. about the next generation of Gazans. When we were together in New York City, you expressed empathy for Gazans, and we're, you're still able to distinguish a Gazan person from a Hamas terrorist. But from what I read, it seems like this next generation of children who live in Gaza are being indoctrinated with these, um, really evil, anti Semitic, vicious thoughts about how important it is to harm Jewish people, to kill Jewish people.
there's even like a pay to slay concept where 7 percent of the, the, uh, Palestinian Authority's budget is allocated towards families whose, children have died in killing Israelis and all, which I'm sure you're aware of. So I'm curious, do you think that the next [00:54:00] generation of your neighbors of Gazans are going to be able to overcome what they're learning in school, the hatred that's being taught, this indoctrination effectively?
Aviva Siegel: well, I can talk about myself and what I would love to happen and Keith too, we peacemakers and we want good for everybody. And for me to imagine. A mother having a baby in a tent, or an older person in a tent for more than a year and now it's cold, it's raining outside, it breaks my heart and I think that all the good people in the world should have a good life.
And what's happening to the children with all this hate that they get from their parents towards Israelis or Jews isn't right. Because look, what happened? What's good about wars? What's good about killing? People should enjoy life [00:55:00] and love and enjoy whatever they can. And we've been born to live. You know that war means killing. Who wants to die? So I think that they need to wake up and change their attitude and just try and figure out what life is all about. But life should be good. It shouldn't be bad. It shouldn't be killing. Life should be a family that sits around a table and has got food and enough food for everybody and laugh and talk and talk about good things, not about bad things and killing.
So I would really love it. If Gaza and the world and the attitude of hate will change into love, because it needs to happen.
Marc Beckman: Aviva, you've given me so much time, um, and, and. [00:56:00] Such honesty and amazing to hear your story and your journey. Um, every guest that I have on my show ends, uh, we end the same way. I, I begin the sentence with the name of the show, Some Future Day, and then my guest finishes the sentence, um, Would you be willing to participate in this, uh, in this process with me, please?
Aviva Siegel: Sure. I just want to say, can I say one more sentence and then you can
Marc Beckman: You could say as much as you want, Aviva. You could say if there's anything that you left out, take your time. I'm here for you. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to cut you
Aviva Siegel: No, no, no, no. You're we've been talking about it a lot, um, in every place that we go. One of the days in Gaza, Keith, look at us. and said, okay, everybody should say something good of what happened today.
And I remember looking at Keith in the eyes and saying, Keith, how can I say something good about what happened today? I can't find anything good about what [00:57:00] happened today. And I was the last one to say, and I listened to Keith and the girls and they used to say every day, something else. I can't remember what they said, but I remember what I did. I just say every day the same, I just say thank you that you're here for me and thank you that I have you. And that's Keith. He finds good, even in moments of darkness. So wherever we go, we talk about what Keith did and the girls and Keith did find one good thing to say, even though I said the same thing every time.
So I want everybody. In every family, in the evenings, even while they're in darkness, to sit down and say one good thing about what happened to them that day. And I'm sure that it'll fill them, it'll fill their lives with love. So thank you.
Marc Beckman: That's [00:58:00] beautiful. It's beautiful. Sometimes, um, the simple things are what matter the most, right? Like often a good song, a good meal, a good hug. That's, that's humanity, right? Aviva, um, SOPs. In some future day, humanity will.
Aviva Siegel: Be good.
Marc Beckman: I hope so. Aviva, I'm hugging you. Uh, thank you so much for spending so much time with me today. I really do appreciate
Aviva Siegel: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And just let
Marc Beckman: such, you're such a strong, amazing human being. Stay very strong, please. Keith knows that you're, you're screaming and we're going to do everything we can to get this message to, um, people that haven't heard you speak yet outside of Israel, beyond where you've spoke. So, thank
Aviva Siegel: Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye.
[00:59:00] [01:00:00]