Some Future Day

Marc Beckman: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Hi, Roberto. Good afternoon. I am so thrilled to have you on this episode of Some Future Day. How are you?
Roberto Hernandez: Doing great, Marc. Thank you very much for the invitation.
Marc Beckman: Roberto, you and I are aligned. We're optimists. Maybe people would say that we're even tech optimists. Can you please tell me the definition of metaverse to start?
Roberto Hernandez: I knew you were going to start with the easiest question, Marc, and I will probably answer this in a somewhat odd way because I'm really not going to answer your question because I believe that we continue to spend a lot of time on coming up with definitions and the more that I get to [00:02:00] see what is happening with Call it Metaverse, AR, VR, XR, immersive experiences, or something else.
But, uh, in the eyes of, uh, a consumer. In the eyes of a teenager, in the eyes of you or I, the definition becomes somewhat secondary when we are in front of an experience that is delightful and borderline magical. Because if we like what we see, we like what we experience. I don't really care about whether we use the term metaverse or something else.
I'm gonna buy it, uh, if I can, uh, afford it. And I think that that's what has been happening with. Technology over and over again. I remember probably some of your viewers are not gonna have a clue on what I'm gonna say, but who, uh, 20 years ago remembers because we used to have these debates on Whether we should call it www.
something and people say, well, but you [00:03:00] are missing HTML. And then with people like, well, it's HTTPS and all sorts of terms that I don't even remember what they stood for. And my web platform versus your web platform. And at the end of the day, it was pretty evident that what, uh, people out there really wanted is a way to connect to what, uh, initially was the World Wide Web, then the internet, and now people don't even know what we are talking about, they just refer to us as apps, and the exact same thing is going to happen with the Metaverse, but maybe to avoid disappointing you, I would say that the Metaverse is just a collection of technologies that allow us to have a conversation.
Immersive experiences that range from immersive 2D to full virtual reality.
Marc Beckman: Okay. So let's, so let's hang out on that concept of immersive experiences for a second. I, I was excited. I read a report recently from Stanford University, which said that the retention rate [00:04:00] for consumers inside a fully immersive digital experience reaches 75 to 80 percent versus when a brand speaks at a conference call.
speaks at a consumer or uses written, uh, format to speak to a consumer. The retention rate is about five to 10%. So do you think that these immersive experiences are going to wholeheartedly change the way that brands market with or to their, their target customer base?
Roberto Hernandez: I would say that the clear answer to that is yes. And the reason why I can confidently say yes is because we have conducted a couple of studies, not related to brands specifically, but related to different use cases for immersive technologies or The Metaverse in areas such as training and most recently we published results [00:05:00] of another story that we did on what happens when you inject the virtual reality into something as technical as running a really large multinational project that follows the agile methodology.
And if you sprinkle a little bit of virtual reality, not implying that You will have people on headsets the entire day or the entire duration of the project, but it's unbelievable how if you give someone an opportunity to wear a headset for 20 25 minutes to do one of the scrum meetings or beginning of day or end of day sessions.
If you provide a half an hour training to someone in virtual reality versus one of the video conference platforms, the information retention goes through the roof and the connectivity that the people in the experience, particularly as it relates to the Agile experiment that we run. Also goes through the roof simply because [00:06:00] I know that a lot of people, uh, uh, allude to the fact, and I actually agree with that, that nothing replaces the in person human experience, but the reality of business today and the reality of brands today is that We are not going to be able to have an in person connection 100 percent of the time.
So we have one of two options to say, we are going to be doing at the best that we can on those opportunities for the in person interaction. And everything else is going to continue to follow the 2D standards that have been in place for now over a decade. Or are we going to complement the delight of that in person experience with immersive experiences in the form of AR?
VR, XR, that not only increase the delight, but increase information retention and also create a more delightful end to end journey. When I think about a brand, you can have, if you want the core of your experience to be that in person element [00:07:00] of the journey, but with immersive technologies. You can begin the journey in a delightful way, way before that in person interaction, and you can continue the immersive experience way after that in person interaction experience.
Marc Beckman: So, Roberta, when you talk about immersive experiences, if I understand correctly, you're not saying these immersive experiences need to be, for example, in a VR realm. You're saying 2D works too. Like, for example, is that like a gaming platform, like a Roblox, a Fortnite, like, is that, is that?
Roberto Hernandez: Absolutely. Tons of opportunities in, uh, what I would refer as immersive 2D that are those, uh, experiences of our worlds that we would consume through our smartphones or laptops. It also includes, uh, augmented reality experiences that might be available on, uh, our phones and, uh, several social media companies already have those in place, but could also be, uh, maybe going to a kiosk at a shopping center and, uh, Finding one of these magic mirrors that are [00:08:00] emerging that allows to have a more immersive interaction.
And then you, of course, have the more immersive experiences that include not only virtual reality, by the way, but that also include next generation uses of audio technology on things like, as an example, last Sunday when I was watching my son play flag football, I had a conversation with my sunglasses And people might laugh, I know that a couple of people saw the LED light blinking and looked at me as if I was from another planet, but I was using it to start recording some of the videos from my kid throwing the ball, to take some pictures and yes, also to get some Updates on, uh, the scores of the football games that were taking place at the same time.
Marc Beckman: That's incredible. So, assuming that you're, the hardware you're talking about, the glasses that you're talking about, [00:09:00] are the new Ray Ban meta collaboration, I'm curious, um, one of the big complaints that we hear repeatedly is that uh, People, using hardware, on their face is too burdensome. They're too heavy, they're clunky, et cetera.
Was it a comfortable experience for you when you used these glasses?
Roberto Hernandez: To me it was actually pretty comfortable and I would also, uh, argue that it's just one of the examples on the types of interactions that we are going to be having with next generation wearables. I think it's too early to tell which are going to be the ones that are going to be widely adopted by, uh, Large segments of the population, but what I really like is that we are seeing an acceleration on the number of devices that are going to be coming to market.
Some might be sunglasses or regular eyeglasses. Some might be, uh, pins that we are going to have, uh, uh, attached to, uh, our sweaters. Some might [00:10:00] be, uh, foldable wearables that are going to give us a different experience. And some others, as I alluded to a couple of minutes ago, might be different, uh, types of LED screens that are going to be around us in certain public locations.
And that are going to have technology that is going to allow us to have a very personalized experience, regardless of how many other people might be surrounding us at that point.
Marc Beckman: So, Roberto, you talk a lot about, um, hardware that is in the pipeline and might, um, reach mass distribution, let's say into 24, 25. But as it relates to your, definition of the metaverse, it seems like we're there already, right? Like if you start to think about gaming, social media, access to other types of VR, um, you know, for example, the MetaQuest 3 now and beyond, is the metaverse already ubiquitous, but, uh, for some reason we don't really, realize it?
Roberto Hernandez: I [00:11:00] would say that the early days of the metaverse are definitely already around us, but it's no different than what we have seen with other large technology waves. The analogy that I use all the time is the evolution that we all went through from the early days of the internet to what we have today. I still remember, uh, I lived in Mexico City for my entire life up to 20 years ago.
So my first experience with the internet was when I plugged in my computer to the phone line. To access the internet for the very first time and, uh, despite the fact that it took me, uh, about 25 minutes, uh, and, uh, a month later, my dad, uh, screaming at me for all the money that I had spent on, uh, long distance calls, I still remember how magical that experience was when I could see on my green [00:12:00] screen Text from the cable news network, uh, on the, uh, on the news.
And a lot of people back then could have said, well, why are you spending so much money and so much time connecting to read two lines of text if you can turn your TV set on and you already have cable and you can see the news with all the pictures, uh, et cetera, et cetera, uh, real time. And if people would just stop and say, Hey, that's the extent of what the internet is going to be all about.
And there were all sorts of articles published back then that say, Well, this is going to be useless. The internet is dead. A lot of the things that we are hearing these days that are happening to the Metaverse is just a very short sighted view. This is going to take time. This is going to take, uh, uh, quite a bit of, uh, adoption ups and downs, but it doesn't mean that the journey hasn't started.
And it doesn't mean that the journey [00:13:00] is, uh, already done or has come to, uh, to an end in any shape or form. We are just going to go through the same evolution with the only difference that I would say it took us, uh, Mike, how many years to go from? That, green screen experience to a pretty slick smartphone app.
I would dare to say that the time that is gonna take us, uh, from the green screen days of the Metaverse to the app days of the Metaverse is gonna be probably less than a third of the, uh, of the time. And just, uh, thinking about software, uh. Uh, developments, hardware developments and the convergence that, uh, I'm starting to see on all things, uh, blockchain related, generative AI related and immersive, uh, related.
I don't think that we are going to be talking a few years from now about isolated, uh, technologies. We are going to be talking about, uh, a family of, uh, technologies that, uh, work, uh, in for the most part to, uh, Create not only delightful experiences, [00:14:00] but very productive applications across all sectors.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I see that too, Roberto. I, I look at the concept of emerging technologies as an umbrella that stands on top of blockchain technology and its related, types of, elements, artificial intelligence, and then off chain technologies that include VR, AR, MR, Uh, Spatial Computing and Beyond. I think that's, you know, really a salient point because they will all work together.
And to a certain extent, I think artificial intelligence will be the driving engine behind it. Like the gasoline, the engine that drives all of these other projects. when you start to think about like these emerging technologies becoming more and more ubiquitous, typically they kind of like seep into, pop culture in different ways.
They're. is a utility value and there's an entertainment value. And I think gaming has [00:15:00] done a lot historically in bringing us, you know, bringing a lot of these technologies forward. So, I'm curious in your, from your perspective, which piece do you think will be more critical in allowing for these emerging technologies to reach mass consumer consumption?
Do you think it will be more about the utility or more about the entertainment value?
Roberto Hernandez: In my opinion, Marc is going to be a thousand percent all about the experience. I fundamentally believe that if you think about what has happened this year alone with attendance at superstar concerts, The speed at which new seasons of popular video games are being adopted and all sorts of records are being broken, it's not about the technology in isolation, it's not about these companies necessarily doing, uh, Microsegmentation to understand what each of us wants [00:16:00] as an individual customer, as a part of a segment.
What more and more companies are realizing is that we are all looking for delightful experiences. The most delightful experiences might manifest in different ways, but I am the same human when I go to the movies or when I go to the supermarket to buy groceries and products from my favorite brands.
However, the way in which my preferences work might be really, really different, uh, on what I want to experience when I'm going on vacation versus when I'm, uh, conducting something that is more routine, uh, by, by nature. So I think that, uh, those brands that start, and I see several that are already heading in that direction.
Realize that this is not just about, uh, having a great 2D experience, but that people want to interact with you [00:17:00] in a more immersive way that they want to interact with, uh, each other in, uh, in different ways that, by the way, you mentioned, uh, video games, to me, the biggest change that we have seen in video games, lately, if you think about, uh, the resolution of the images, I wouldn't say that some of the platforms that, my three boys, use day in and day out are the, highest definition, characters or these, worlds that look like, real life.
It is more about, how are those platforms allowing them to interact with, their friends, with a network of people that, most of the time they also connect with, in real life. But is that stretching of the experience? Is that, stretching of the journey that, allows them to be connected, with that group?
Not only when they have the opportunity to see them in person, to play sports or because they go to school [00:18:00] together, but because they can continue that experience when they are at home through these delightful, experiences that are immersive and that allow them to be creators, not only consumers of content.
Marc Beckman: So let's talk about that a little bit further in the video game sector. Let's isolate to Fortnite and um, the advances that Unreal Engine are bringing to the platform as well as bringing to the creator. I mean, it's incredible to me that Unreal Engine is, is um, allowing for individual Participants to develop imagery and immersive environments, experiences that are, are photorealistic.
you can't distinguish at this point what the, um, images are, uh, whether it's an actual photograph or, or going deeper. So how will that, impact. The way that creators, participate with, with Fortnite and, um, then how will, do you see an evolution to [00:19:00] gaming also, uh, for example, will they only create, or use Unreal Engine to develop in game experiences, or do you think that Fortnite could transform into.
Perhaps a arena where original content is created and distributed because of Unreal Engine. you know, a new way of watching television shows, perhaps even a new YouTube type of format.
Roberto Hernandez: So I'm, uh, far from, uh, being a video game expert, so I will comment based on what I'm seeing across industries because I believe that the answer applied to multiple sectors. When you think about how fast technology is moving, when literally a year or so ago we started being exposed to being able to type something in what looks like the search box from our favorite search engine, and we got more than just the answer, we got a little bit of an [00:20:00] opinion.
A little bit of additional content, a little bit of additional engagement. How that quickly moved from not only text, but text and images. Then text, images, and video, all in our 2D, uh, devices, and all of a sudden we are now talking about how I can use some of those same, uh, technologies, uh, but to create experiences that are more immersive, VR, AR, et cetera, et cetera, you all of a sudden Uh, talk about, uh, an explosion on the number of creatives that are not going to be, in my opinion, uh, going to become more creative, uh, as a result of the technology, but you are going to be able to, uh, extract, uh, that creativity that a lot of humans had that in the past, uh, would be, uh, constrained by not having access to some of these resources that now technology is [00:21:00] making available to, uh, all of us.
And, uh, what we can also expect to see is that the ability of those creatives to start, uh, monetizing on the experiences that they develop could also change the rules of, uh, of the game. So we could also be talking about, uh, a world when, uh, The creator has a more direct access to their intended audience, but I have seen it time and time again with the two creatives that we have in PwC as an example that you can get someone like me to play with any of these tools and that.
Play with the prompts and you get something interesting, something that at times, uh, I would consider pretty cool, but then you get one of the true creatives, one of the people that, uh, have the, uh, required training to do, uh, to do magical things and what they are able to do with these tools just, uh, grows exponentially in [00:22:00] terms of, uh, the value that they can bring to the table and the excitement that they can convey.
by having access to these technologies that are coming front and center.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, that's really interesting. Um, the impact on business and the evolution of, uh, revenue growth. As a result of emerging technologies is a topic that I'm particularly interested in. In fact, this week, Live Nation reported astronomical growth as a result specifically from Taylor Swift and Beyonce. The numbers went through the roof.
I don't know if you saw it, Roberto, but they were really impressive. And when you talk about experiences, you mentioned concerts and video games together. I'm curious, how do you feel emerging technologies We'll change the experience as it relates to the concert business. Do you think a company like Live Nation will have to plan, on, on developing new types of experiences for [00:23:00] the Taylor Swift fan base?
And if so, what will those experiences look like?
Roberto Hernandez: To me, it's not only concerts, Marc. I would say that the exact same thing applies to sports fans. The same thing applies to theme parks and other dream destinations. If you think about how it works today, for the most part, whether you're talking about a concert or going to a Formula One race or Visiting a theme park.
Yes, you have, uh, maybe an app that, uh, was designed for the fan club, but that is not necessarily connected to the, uh, in person experience. And that's not necessarily connected to, uh, a loyalty program that, uh, leverages some of the data that, uh, consumers are willing to, uh, make available for the experience to be enhanced.
So what I believe that we are going to start to [00:24:00] see are more integrated, uh, journeys, uh, that are going to apply to concerts, but also going to apply to brands in which you engage. Before and after that, uh, key moment that, uh, in the case of a concert would be the actual, uh, experience of attending the, uh, the concert.
But then, uh, the, uh, the venue recognizing who you are, if you are one of the most, uh, loyal fans, in a way that you might get access to some perks before, during, and after the, uh, the concert. You might get an immersive preview on the experience that you are about to enjoy two weeks later. You might get a thank you, a personalized thank you message.
That is not just a video, but it's a sit down with the performer. The day after or the week after the, uh, the concert, which is gonna elevate, uh, the, uh, experience, but it's also gonna allow these [00:25:00] brands to offer additional products and services to that, uh, intended audience in a way that, again, is delightful, not in a way that is just, uh, pushing product for the sake of pushing product.
Marc Beckman: So. I like to refer to these concepts as like super fan experiences, right? And they kind of roll up. So they'll give staying on Taylor Swift for a second. They'll give that those Swifties, the ability to have access to limited edition. Merchandise, both digital apparel and physical apparel, access to unique experiences in the digital realm as well as in the physical realm, and then access to perhaps unique services, um, you know, learn how to dance, learn how to sing, etc.
I think those are really compelling ideas.
Roberto Hernandez: And imagine how cool is it gonna be, Marc, when in the very near future, you might have those very loyal fans. that decide to provide additional information in a way that they might order a product. [00:26:00] It might be a t shirt, it might be a pair of shoes. But then if, uh, we are wearing any of these new next generation, uh, wearables, call it, uh, pins, glasses, watches, or something else, we can actually detect that, uh, that person walking across the street is a fellow, uh, fan.
Because, uh, his or her shoes might change color, but just, uh, change color for me as a fellow, uh, fan club, uh, member, and in ways that, uh, not, uh, uh, everyone in the general public can, uh, can see it.
Marc Beckman: incredible,
Roberto Hernandez: build connections that have already been happening, right? But it's already happening.
Through the lens of a phone and the app that might allow me to do that, but it's not as seamless as I believe it's going to become in the very near future.
Marc Beckman: so, so incredible, so like personalization plus community building through physical items, um, that will allow an individual to know [00:27:00] that fellow Swifties are, you know, in close proximity and maybe unlock, some kind of a benefit to those individuals too.
Roberto Hernandez: unlock a different pattern that gets activated. by everyone that is wearing that limited edition t shirt at the concert. So, that's when the possibilities explode from a creative standpoint because it could be something that got generated by the fan club in connection with the brand and the performer.
So that's where I, uh, fundamental believe that we are gonna see a creativity explosion that is gonna manifest through this migration from customer to experience centricity that we're
Marc Beckman: I love it. You know, I think that's incredibly, incredibly exciting, particularly because I see that a lot of what you're talking about is imminent. It's, you know, these are concepts that are possibilities right now. but at whose expense? So my question to you [00:28:00] is, This, it seems like these emerging technologies will breed new business verticals and new business opportunity, let's say in the creative lifestyle categories, fashion, art, music, sports and entertainment.
But will companies fall behind and possibly be eliminated because they aren't staying on top of these new emerging tech trends?
Roberto Hernandez: So I would say it's too early to tell. The only thing that I would say related to this and, and what I'm gonna say is not new because it has happened that time and time again. organizations big and small have, uh. One of two options, and I'm probably overgeneralizing things, but for the sake of simplicity, let's just talk about one of two options.
To believe that this is not happening and that they continue to, uh, they need to continue to do things the way that they have been doing them for the past decade and just continuing to [00:29:00] make certain small enhancements to their app or to their website. I want to recognize that, uh, consumers, uh, of, uh, all sorts of different, uh, segments are starting to look for something different because the time of, uh, just having traditional websites and, uh, uh, traditional apps is quickly expiring.
And to start learning about, uh, what is happening. I'm not saying that, uh, there's a need, at least not yet. For any, uh, any of these brands or large organizations to say we are going to stop everything that we are doing and we are going to be migrating 100 into whatever is our definition of the metaverse.
But what I challenge my clients with all the time is on the 2-5 rule. And what I mean by that is Spending 2%, if you don't want to even go above that, 2 of your marketing budget on [00:30:00] experimentation on how you can leverage some of these technologies. Is that too expensive of an option to have as an organization?
When, at the end of the day, if everything that we are talking about, uh, uh, proves to be, uh, flawed and becomes obsolete, You can turn around and say, well, we only spent 2 percent on this, no big deal, let's now go and, uh, invest on, uh, what is truly going to be, uh, phenomenal from a revenue growth standpoint. are you really going to be the one that is going to be looking back and say, I decided not to invest 2 percent on experimentation? I'm teaching my people how to embrace all of these if my competitors are now the ones that are way ahead of me because we decided not to put a diamond. I
Marc Beckman: 2 percent seems very conservative, um, but I'm curious, what percentage of your clients actually adopt the 2 5 percent rule? Do you have, um, people, are people [00:31:00] optimistic about new tech?
Roberto Hernandez: Embracing this, and you can actually look out there and see just this year alone, if you think about the number of large brands that have been experimenting with, maybe they don't call it metaverse, but think about immersive experiences. AR enabled experiences, things that they are doing in mixed reality, extended reality, next generation touchscreens.
We see more and more companies that are quickly realizing that there's something happening here and making some investments. And what I have seen is that I don't actually have a problem with them getting into this 2 percent level. Marc, because what most are realizing is that they start with 2 percent and six months or a year later, they already have a number of things that are providing enough [00:32:00] of a dividend for them to say, well, let's grow this and they become in some cases self funded initiatives given the early success of those that are jumping into this now.
Marc Beckman: Well, I see a lot of companies kind of Dipping their feet in, dipping their toe in, to these emerging technologies. it's not so revolutionary. They're evolving into it. So like, you know, for me, I think Nike's done a phenomenal job with Dot Swoosh and building out that creator economy and community on top of, blockchain.
I think it's interesting to look at what Starbucks has done as it me, as it re reacts, as it, um, relies on slowly moving from Web 2 to Web 3 with its loyalty program. I think, arguably, Starbucks has the most impressive loyalty program on the planet, and the fact that it's slowly, um, integrating a Web 3 vertical there, uh, happens to say a lot.
It underscores the point that they see value [00:33:00] with regards to moving into Web 3. Anheuser Busch, InBev. They've also moved their loyalty program into a Web3 vertical. So, you know, this slow evolution of companies is, is, uh, going into emerging technologies, I think it's important. So if you're getting these companies to, to try things out.
it's great. Hopefully the reaction will be good, but I think to your point, it gives them an advantage because it lays the foundation, right? You get the plan, you can take advantage of new technologies and the benefits that these new technologies bring along as well. For example, what do you think as it relates to Nike's idea of putting their intellectual property into their community to allow for creators to develop digital assets and to monetize them as well?
I mean, that's a very unique thing for a brand like Nike to be willing to put their IP into the mix.
Roberto Hernandez: Yeah, so I want to go back to something that you mentioned to answer your question, because you mentioned two very important words. You [00:34:00] mentioned the word community and the word loyalty. And I would say that those are examples on what, in my opinion, drives the difference between just a one time campaign to check the box and building something that is going to be long lasting.
Because when you talk about community, when you talk about loyalty, Marc, you have an objective in mind that goes way beyond just running a pilot to please your boss or to copy what your competitor is doing. Where I see a big distinction these days is between the companies that wake up on a Monday morning and say, hey, let's go into one of these immersive 2D platforms.
We need to build something, uh, there. Why? We don't know, but we need to build something because, uh, our neighbor, uh, we already heard the rumor that they are going to be jumping into one of these platforms, or others that say, hey, let's do [00:35:00] something in augmented reality. Do we even understand, uh, if our clients are using augmented reality for all the things that they do when, uh, they, uh, consume products and services?
Who knows, but we need an augmented reality experience. Those failed close to 100 percent of the time. It becomes really different when you say, we believe that technology is going to allow us to offer a different type of experience as it relates to loyalty, or as it relates to embracing the community that we are trying to build with our customers.
Because then technology becomes an accessory to a bigger objective instead of the focus of what you're going to be spending your budget in. Because then that's when you start analyzing loyalty, our customers, let's do some analysis. Which of the different great technologies related to Immersive or something else that are at our disposal are going to be the ones that are going to [00:36:00] allow us to really move the needle.
On our ultimate objective that is to create a better loyalty program, to increase customer retention, to increase our, uh, our sales on the productivity side is also to be more efficient in the way in which we conduct, uh, training, uh, because then that, uh, that objective stays, even if the technology continues to advance, because you need to go into a lot of these things with eyes wide open, that some of the things that you might start, uh, working with as part of that 2 percent that I was alluding to, um, Might become obsolete six months later, and that's fine, as long as your objective is not, uh, that particular, uh, widget.
Your objective is community, loyalty, retention, or something
Marc Beckman: So, um, gone are the days of the shiny disco ball, 69 million Beeple NFT and enter the days of leveraging these new technologies for [00:37:00] utility as it relates for brands, right? Like the concept of community and loyalty are critical now.
Roberto Hernandez: And the same concept, uh, applies, uh, Marc, uh, there were a lot of companies that got into NFTs. Last, uh, year, uh, primarily that said, uh, hey, uh, let's just, uh, issue, uh, NFTs. We don't really even understand, uh, how is this gonna work? We don't even know what percentage of our target audience has a data wallet that can absorb that, uh, NFT, but we heard that our neighbors are making a fortune by selling, uh, pictures of their logo for a million dollars.
Let's, uh, get to something like that. And, uh, at the same time, we saw a number of companies that, uh, didn't jump into the hype bandwagon and that instead spent the time on truly understanding the value that, uh, NFT technology or blockchain technology can provide to loyalty, that can provide to community.[00:38:00]
And, uh, they might not be using, uh, the word NFT, but they are certainly, uh, using, uh, Web3 principles to build these experiences.
Marc Beckman: Roberto, I think a big piece of, the puzzle that you're talking about is the perceived value of a digital asset. For example, one can argue that a young millennial Gen Z, Gen Alpha might value a digital asset more than an individual from my generation and older. So, you know, talk about an NFT.
It's interesting that Disney has entered. just this week, Disney entered the, NFT space with, um, Disney characters, with princesses, I think they also released a Star Wars collection, and maybe that's the first step in saying, okay, next generation, Gen Zalpha, we know that you appreciate these Digital collectibles, but we're going to use this as a stepping stone [00:39:00] into a much broader long term type of loyalty program as well.
So, I just think it's interesting to share that perspective where, you know, we're still seeing major corporations like Disney entering the space.
Roberto Hernandez: And I expect that we will continue to see companies big and small jumping into this space. But as I mentioned before, Marc, what I expect is that We are no longer going to see companies just going into one of these technologies, but taking a couple of steps back and then thinking about a bigger objective that could be loyalty, community, or something else and saying, well, you know, How do all of these technologies can come together in a way that, uh, they can delight, uh, the people that, uh, we want to delight from existing customers, new, uh, new customers or opportunities for us to extend our value [00:40:00] proposition beyond the products and services that we offer today.
Marc Beckman: So when you talk about this, um, these grouping of emerging technologies, you know, obviously artificial intelligence is such a hot topic this day, these days. So I'm curious, um, in your mind. And in, from, you know, from your perspective, how do you see major corporations using generative AI specifically to help, fuel their business models, um, perhaps let's say in the creative classes to start, um, how do you see generative AI fueling entities from fashion, from art, from music, sports, entertainment?
over the next three to five years.
Roberto Hernandez: You know, I would say that there are more than enough, uh, survey studies out there already, including, uh, several, uh, pieces of thought leadership that PwC has published that, uh, show, uh, How, uh, big generative AI and [00:41:00] AI is becoming on pretty much every single, uh, sector. At the same time, I believe it's important to remember that AI didn't, uh, become a thing just last year.
There are people, uh, including, uh, people that I have a lot of respect for at PwC, that have been spending over a decade, uh, really getting, uh, into the gods of, uh, artificial intelligence and how transformative, uh, that piece of technology is going to be. So as it relates to, uh, creative, uh, areas, uh, Marc, I think that they are going to go through the same, uh, change that, that we are seeing in, uh, several other parts of large businesses.
They are certainly gonna be, uh, impacted. I am not the overview that they are gonna be impacted, uh, from the standpoint that creatives are gonna go away because I'm gonna be talking to, uh, a machine that is gonna replace what a creative does today at an [00:42:00] agency or at any of the large brands. However, and I'm not the one that, uh, came up with these several other smarter people than I have mentioned this time and time again.
This is not about the human versus the machine. This is about the creative that embraces these tools that is going to be way more productive and is going to be able to express their creativity in bigger ways than the human that is very creative that decides not to learn anything about what these tools have to offer.
Marc Beckman: So why does the human, let's say it's a chief marketing officer, for example, why does that individual who can leverage generative AI need to be more productive from a content perspective? Like how would they unleash the, um, tons of content that could be created in a very short period of time through the use of generative AI?
Roberto Hernandez: I think that it goes back to what we were [00:43:00] talking about a few minutes ago. If we believe in a world that is going to become more experience centric, that's going to require a different type of content production at companies big and small and brands big and small, and generative AI is going to help you accelerate those people.
Marc Beckman: Roberto, do you think that generative AI will eventually be classified as A type of art, like a type of genre that brands, companies, and creators will use, um, you know, like there are photographers, analog and digital, there are painters, you know, there are digital artists now. Do you feel like AI will just ultimately, generative AI, artists will just ultimately stand on their own as a particular type of art?
Roberto Hernandez: That's, that's a tough one. I would say no. Because I continue to believe that we are talking about amazing [00:44:00] tools, but tools are just that, tools. I don't think that tool is going to replace human ingenuity anytime soon.
Marc Beckman: Humans win, huh?
Roberto Hernandez: I'm a big believer that we're on the winning team,
Marc Beckman: Good. Good. But
Roberto Hernandez: but it's not a battle at the same time. This is not about, as I said before, humans versus machines. We have gone through periods like this in history. It's about learning how we need to retool ourselves as humans so we can continue doing what we are great at doing as humans that is different than what a machine is good at doing.
Marc Beckman: the concept of humans beating machines is interesting, but we're also living in a time period where humans are not trusting humans. We have this post trust type of mindset, and I think this is particularly evident in cryptocurrency circles where people, might [00:45:00] consider How their governments are devaluing their currencies, including the dollar. So I wonder, um, how do you see in this post trust world, individuals or humans leveraging blockchain technology as it relates to possessing their currency, possessing their identity?
How important are those aspects? forward looking.
Roberto Hernandez: So now you have really gotten into an area that, uh, I will have to point to people that specialize in the topic because I don't hold any, uh, any, any crypto and, uh, I'm not the one to speak about, uh, geo, uh, geopolitics. Uh, it is obviously, uh, pretty turbulent, uh, time. But, uh, as it relates to that and, uh, the impact on crypto, uh, I, I don't even know where to start.
Marc Beckman: Oh, let's keep it light hearted then. A simple question that I wanted to ask you is, do you think life will be better for us in the metaverse? [00:46:00] Um, like for example, will family life, business life, education, spirituality, will life be better for humans in the metaverse?
Roberto Hernandez: So what I would say, Marc, is that instead of calling it life in the metaverse, I would refer to it, is life gonna be better as more people embrace the use of metaverse technologies? And I would say that the answer is absolutely yes. Because what is going to happen and I keep going back to this notion of stretching a delightful journey in which we are not talking, I'm never going to subscribe to the idea that some people have alluded to that the real world is going to be so miserable.
that we are going to prepare to just put on a headset and disconnect from reality from the moment that we wake up until we are ready to go to bed. Instead what I believe is going to happen is that we are going to be embracing these technologies as an [00:47:00] extension of the delight of in person experiences because what we are going to realize sooner rather than later is that by leveraging some of these immersive experiences.
The actual productivity, the retention of information, the excitement around them is going to be way higher than the interaction like the one that you and I are having right now that is through a flat screen. If we are talking about migrating into an immersive platform, when I can still be at my home office, you can be at the studio, but we can interact with each other through a medium other than that flat screen.
We might learn a little bit more about each other. We might be willing to be my friend, change the environment, if we want to. So something that is, uh, happening, uh, on the other corner of the world and the same thing applies to, uh, a meeting like these. to education when you can, let's [00:48:00] say, be having a world history lesson with high school students and instead of just talking to them about the Roman Coliseum, and there are professors that do a fantastic job with that, but wouldn't that experience get elevated if all of a sudden that same professor tells him, hey, why don't we put a virtual reality headset on?
Let's travel to Rome today. And then also, let's move the dial back in time. Let's actually, uh, experience, uh, how the Roman Colosseum looked like in the time of the Roman Empire.
Marc Beckman: And we could
Roberto Hernandez: That's pretty delightful, right? But he's not living in the meadows.
Marc Beckman: right? And we could do that now, right? That's, that's all possible now.
Roberto Hernandez: Mm hmm.
Marc Beckman: So Roberto, it's, it's been great having you today. you always provide such an amazing amount of optimistic insight. all of our guests finish the show by finishing a sentence, which I start off with some future day.
So, I'll start the sentence and then if you take a second and think about it and [00:49:00] answer it, we'd appreciate it. So the sentence is, In some future day, business leaders will use the metaverse too.
Roberto Hernandez: Better connect with their customers and their employers in delightful ways.
Marc Beckman: All right, one more for you as a father. In some future day, parents will use the metaverse to better connect with their children through
Roberto Hernandez: Virtual reality.
Marc Beckman: All right, Roberto, thanks for being patient today. It's great to see you. I appreciate your time, my friend.
Roberto Hernandez: Thank you very much Marc and we'll be in touch and hopefully we can connect in person in New York the next time that I'm in your neck of the woods.
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