Some Future Day

Marc Beckman: Jameel Spencer, thank you for joining me today on Some Future Day. It's so great to see you. How are you?
Jameel Spencer: Um, I'm great, man. Thanks for having me. Um, you know, any opportunity to sort of, you know, talk to, like, the future generation of people who will shape, um, culture is, you know, I, I jump at that. I think that's part of our responsibility, you know, to whom much is given, much is expected. So, super excited to be here with you, um, who, you know, someone who I've, I, I admire your journey, um, and, and sort of the, the, uh, the enterprise that you've built.
And more importantly, how you show up as a human being.
Marc Beckman: Thank you so much, Jameel. I appreciate the kind words. You've been shaking up culture for your entire career. In 2004, you were awarded, um, one of the Crane's 40 Under 40 prizes. At the time you were president of Blue Flame Marketing, which was a marketing and advertising, um, [00:01:00] agency. It was plugged into as a division of, um, Sean P.
Diddy Combs Bad Boy Worldwide Entertainment. Before we get into like Diddy and all that, can you tell me a little bit about what Blue Flame was back then? I remember it was really like, I, I saw, I had my eye on you and I remember it was really groundbreaking at the time. There really weren't agencies that like you.
Propped up and then plugged into an entity. I thought it was really an innovative and, and a cool business model. Can you talk about Blue Flame a
Jameel Spencer: For sure, man. It's one of the most, um, one of the most, one of the experiences that I'm most proud of, quite honestly. Because, if you think about the time, right, it was at, sort of, um, you know, a moment in time where, like, hip hop culture had become the prevailing culture and prevailing, sort of, indicator of pop culture.
Um, and you were seeing, you know, young Black entrepreneurs creating success on our own terms. We were able to dress like ourselves. We were able to speak like ourselves [00:02:00] and, you know, pop culture was really, really gravitating to it. And so if you think about the reason why like, you know, Puff at the time and, and, and even beyond and like Jay Z and there's probably a, you know, a good handful of like culturally relevant You know, individuals that really, really push culture forward.
Um, if you think about the time, you know, they were successful. They were known for what, for their day jobs. So whether it would be Puff or for music or Jay Z for, you know, as a performer. Um, but what made them iconic was their ability to create industries that, you know, were outside of their day jobs. So, you know, the, the liquor companies, um, the, The advertising world, right?
Like, you know, pop culture was consuming hip hop at an all time level, so it only made sense to create a vehicle that could leverage that. So my role at Blue, I was the president of Blue Flame, which is interesting because I always wanted to be the general manager. I got hired to be the, I got [00:03:00] hired to run the, at the time it was called Bad Boy Marketing.
I got hired to run Bad Boy Marketing, and I said to Puff that I wanted to be the general manager, and he was like, nah, you got to be the president. Said no one wants to talk to the general manager, you want to be the president. And that was really, um, you know, kind of representative of like, how Puff saw the world, right?
And how he saw the, um, the promise of who we could be. You know, he was the type of person that always pushed you to be the best version of yourself. He was obviously, you know, Um, probably one of the foremost, um, visionaries in, in, in terms of like identifying emerging talent. You just imagine that he made like a heavyset black kid from Brooklyn with a wandering eye, the biggest hip hop star maybe of all time in Biggie Smalls, right?
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Jameel Spencer: just imagine, it's like the vision to see that. Um, and he, and that, and that vision was not just in music, it was also across entrepreneurs. [00:04:00] And so, you know, I was the chief marketing officer over all of the bad boy companies. Um, and then I also ran Blue Flame where we had outside, um, clients who were really trying to leverage the inertia and excitement of, of hip hop culture, right?
And so, and, and one thing that was great and still exist, uh, still exists today is that, you know, we were, um Not marketing to a culture. We were, we were the culture, right? So our ability to know like who was going to be next, it's almost like that cool kid in the class. Like when you were growing up, it was the guy that probably was you.
Cause I see, even just the look, the way you dress, right. You probably have always been like a little bit different than everybody else. And maybe ahead of the curve, you were doing it before everyone else was doing it. Right. And that's kind of who we were. We, we, we kind of, you know, we put the team together where people, Who were culturally relevant, who were culturally aware.
I would call it today like there's artificial intelligence. I would call it cultural intelligence. You know, I [00:05:00] pride myself on having been in the culture business for the last 35 years of my life. Right, um, and really I don't consider that I've actually worked a day in my life because everything that I do is something that I love and it's also like leveraging my connectivity to culture and my, and my sort of unique responsibility Right?
Because, you know, um, you know, I have been blessed. I've been that guy too, right? I was the guy that dressed different growing up. I was the guy that had dreads when I was in college. I had, I had an earring. I went to all boys school. Um, I was, I skipped a grade, so I went to Seton Hall Prep when I was 13 years old.
And when I was 14 years old, I had an earring, which, like, everyone called me gay, because I had an earring, right? Um, and then, you know, four years later, all those same guys had an earring, right? Um, and so, you know, just always sort of, um, being predisposed to what's next, um, being curious, and, you know, curiosity is what moves people.
The world forward, right? Because I think [00:06:00] if we all sort of design into being the same, then how do we get anything different? And so that experience was really, really important to me because quite honestly, like I was a young kid, um, and I had never been, you know, in the board rooms that I would end up entering as a result of that opportunity.
But I walked in there with confidence. I walked in there as a guy whose boss told him he was great. And so I believed I was great. And I walked into those rooms and what I found, it's funny, there was a clip recently from Barack Obama talking about, um, you know, talking to young black men about walking into those rooms and don't be intimidated by those rooms because once you get in those rooms you realize it's just people, right?
And some of those people maybe just had Um, more opportunity than others, maybe they've been exposed to it more than others, but once you get in the room, you realize that, you know what, I make sense in the room. Matter of fact, you know what, I might be the bright light in the [00:07:00] room. And so, you know, that's kind of like the energy that I'm trying to give, not only to my own kids, but to my kids friends, and to the future generation, because I think for this world to continue to evolve, we gotta put that type of energy into the youth.
They have to believe that they're great and anything is possible. And that's what that Blue Flame experience was for me.
Marc Beckman: That's amazing. Jameel, you just hit on a million different topics. I wanna like go back a little bit and, and, uh, highlight a couple of them. So let's talk about the business of culture. Um, what is the business of culture?
Jameel Spencer: Man, the business of culture is really just like, so if you think about it, if you look at the landscape, if you really study, um, even if you just study advertising, right, there are messages that are being sold. Right, there, there's, there's positioning that's being, there's stories that are being told. And the business, the culture is really just being on the, on the cusp of that.
Right, you, like just being predisposed, like [00:08:00] understanding where the energy is going and getting there first. Um, and a lot of times in being first, you don't get credit for it. But if you think about, especially nowadays with like influencers, right? Like, people want to be first. You know, you have to be like, sort of, aware of the things that people desire to be, right?
And being able to sell them that and package it in a way that's digestible. Really creating narratives that are ownable and that are authentic, alright? And the thing about it, you can't, so like, there's moments where like, People sell culture in the wrong way. Um, um, um, um, um, I'm drawn to a memory of like one of the Kardashians like giving a Pepsi can to like a homeless person in a commercial, right?
That's a, that's a moment where like, you know, not being connected to culture can kill your business. But be clear, you know, the, the companies that keep connectivity to culture are the ones that succeed. And it's because [00:09:00] it's kind of who they are, it's authentic, it's not something, it can't be manufactured.
And, you know, you gotta surround yourself with people, even myself today, like, you know, I'm 56 years old now, right? So, um, in my household, I have like the most amazing focus groups. around culture, right? So I let, you know, when I'm in the car with my kids, I have, I have six kids that range from 14 years old to 28 years old.
So I'm in the car with my 18 year old twin sons and I let them take control of the aux. That's, that's the, that's the term that the young kids use. Give me the aux. Um, and they're playing this music. And quite honestly, I'm like, I don't quite all the way understand it, but I get it. Right. Um, I get it and I know that it's important and I know that it's next.
And so. Um, you know, the culture business is really just like, it's like a, it's like the heartbeat of how the world moves, right? It's, it's It's important and, and, and used irresponsible, it could sell the wrong thing. So we're living in a time, even [00:10:00] in music, hip hop music in particular, there's this thing called drill music, where these guys, and it's like a mind blowing to me, like there was just a guy, I can't think of the guy's name, um, but a rapper that just got arrested for like putting a hit on someone.
And these people are, drill music is basically these guys, who are like criminals, talking about the, the illegal things that they do in music. Right, that's a moment where, while it's a real thing that's really happening, it's irresponsible, right? It's teaching something that will not serve the world in a positive way.
But, that's the reality of culture, right? It's not always a positive thing. We could also sell a lot of negativity if we choose to.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, it's too much. It's too much. But I guess, um, part of what you're talking about, there's like this tension that I've been exploring for years as it relates, like, you're a culture finder. You understand it. I feel like it's baked into who you are. It's almost inherently a part of [00:11:00] Jameel Spencer. Do you feel like people can learn and be educated about culture to find the next, next cultural movement or do you feel like it's inherently inside of you?
And the best chief marketing officers, the best brand builders are the ones that understand where culture is coming next. It's almost like they could sense the fashion trend, the art trend, the music trend. You can't really learn it in my opinion. Do you agree?
Jameel Spencer: Uh, well, I'd say this, um, I think there's a lot of chief marketing officers of big CPG companies that are not inherently that, right? So, and I think it's a combination of research, data, and then also like surrounding yourself with people because you're going to need someone. So, and I would say this, um, and I had this conversation.
So, in my previous life, I had the, I had the, the luxury of working, um. with Pharrell Williams. And he and I had a conversation because we're very similar, meaning that we come from like these inner cities. I was, I was [00:12:00] born and raised in Newark, New Jersey. He was born and raised in Virginia beach. And he would tell the story that growing up, he would be afraid to come outside.
He was afraid to come outside because on one corner they were like, um, selling drugs. The other corner, they were like gambling. And then the other corner. They were like fighting dogs, right? And he was a nerd by definition, right? He loved music, right? He loved fashion and those things weren't cool. And I would say that, um, you know, sort of, um, ghetto engineering, if you will, right?
Like the, like the, like the superpower of figuring it out. has provided like people like myself and people like Pharrell who kind of lived in between those worlds. Um, I think you have more imagination, right? You're forced to have more imagination because it's really easy to design into the negative things.
Those things typically have like either come with fast [00:13:00] money, Or, or Fast Satisfaction, you know, those types. It's hard to be counterculture, right? It's hard to be different. And so, I think that people have to figure out how to study it, but it won't be the same, right? And it won't give you the ability, but you, I think that's why, you know, you see like these, CMOs of these big CPG companies use a bunch of, um, agencies.
They use sort of outside resources to kind of fill the gap. And they are sort of measured enough, um, and honest enough to know what they don't know and lean on other people to help them figure it out. But I would also say that, you know, there's probably a small community. And again, like I said, it's not that, um, odd.
Like, you can think of, if you think about it, there's always been that kid in your class. He was just a little bit different. He probably didn't talk a lot. He was on the things, he didn't want every, and by the way, he did those things, and he didn't want everyone else doing them too. You know, he, he, the guy that always wanted to be first.
Like, [00:14:00] I'm wearing my, I'm wearing my, it's almost like you watch the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, right? And he was wearing the, he, they had, he went to like a private school and they're wearing it, but he wore his blazer inside out. Right? It's a guy that's just trying to shake things up, and he doesn't really care what you think, and he doesn't care if you follow it.
And by the way, if you follow it, he's gonna probably change, move on to something else. And I think that's a superpower that a few people in the world have. Um, and everybody has, I think everyone has a superpower. I think that, you know, being on the cusp of culture is one that there's a certain community, and we kind of all, like, uh, gravitate towards one another, quite often.
Marc Beckman: tough though, Jameel, right? That, that superpower that you're talking about, one needs to be brave also. It's almost as if, um, if you want to be an individual and it's not even about like saying, Hey, look at me. It's just the way you're expressing yourself. And that could come through so many different mediums. typically these groundbreaker, these visionaries, um, come out in a way where, you know, Most people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not for [00:15:00] me. That is counterculture, right? And then they rise to the top. Like you talk about Biggie and you talk about Pharrell. When Pharrell came out with his music at the first step forward, when he came out with his music, it was a new, Almost like a groundbreaking genre within the, can you categorize it even like within the hip hop community
Jameel Spencer: For sure. For sure, yeah.
Marc Beckman: um, it took, it takes balls to go ahead and step out that way. And then his fashion followed right? Like billionaire at Boys Club was also very singular, a very, Distinct point if you look at like and you know this you could articulate this better than me but if you know if you see like how the um hip hop community influenced uh fashion culture and created brands and then where Billionaire Boys Club popped out from that and look where he is today you know running the luxury world it's it's pretty incredible but it takes a lot to stand on your own even guys our age middle aged men Um, to still have a perspective and a point of view and to share that, it takes, in a weird way, [00:16:00] you have to be a little bit brave these days.
Jameel Spencer: No, well listen, you gotta be brave if you want to be great, right? And if you think about Pharrell's an amazing example because he has stood the test of time, right? He has been brave and audacious his entire life and he's never really cared what you thought about him. He's never cared. Even today, the way he dresses.
There was a time he was on the cover of GQ I think and he was like wearing a dress. And there was all this conversation about like, you know, um Culture trying to rip apart masculinity and the curiosity of a guy like Pharrell says, you know what, I don't really care what you think about me and you can say what you want.
What I wear doesn't make me more of or less than a man no matter what. I'm so comfortable in my skin
Marc Beckman: Right.
Jameel Spencer: that's like the most important part of the whole thing. I can't tell you How many times I've either, either A, not been let into a place [00:17:00] based on how I'm dressed, or someone,
Marc Beckman: Incredible.
Jameel Spencer: mostly who can't dress at all, has something, you know, flippant to say about how I dress, and I couldn't be bothered less, because
I, because I really, I really like who I am, and I, and I know it's important.
Marc Beckman: correct? So, so then how do you apply that, those principles as a brand marketer? I mean, here you are working with some of the biggest brands in the world. How do you take that concept of I'm going to apply true culture to these amazing brands that we own? Your brand portfolio at WHP is incredible and balance that with.
So the, so real culture brings emotion between the brand and the consumer, right? At the end of the day, there's a lot of emotion that you're talking about, Jameel. But then you also, as a marketer, mentioned something called data. So how do you balance this, um, tension between an authentic experience brought to you by culture with your brand [00:18:00] versus we're going to get under the hood and analyze who you are, a target customer, just from numbers, just from the
Jameel Spencer: Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's
Marc Beckman: you see that?
Jameel Spencer: an amazing question, and it's a, um, It's an ongoing, so it's almost like driving a stick shift. And I'm sure young people never even heard of a stick shift, right? But you know how, you know that like the balance that you have to have to change gears, right? And so, um, so first of all, I'd say that with respect to data, um, I always say this out loud.
I will put, uh, I will put my instincts against your data all day. There will be a significant intersection between what I know instinctually and the data that you'll capture, but that you'll have to go out there and research. I just know it. I wake up every morning knowing how culture is going to move.
However, there are moments that are things that go off of the sort of the meter of data, right, that the data hasn't caught up to yet. So there was a moment in my previous [00:19:00] life I was running, um, one of the brands I was marketing was Joe's Jeans. Um, this was probably, I don't know, six or seven years ago. Um, and, and I, it was, my idea was to put, because in my mind, you know, denim advertising had forever been super sexy.
If you think about, um, um, Brooke Shields in her Calvin Klein jeans, right? Um, so, so, exactly, right? Um, and so my idea was to put, uh, Kendall Jenner, Now this is when Kendall Jenner was not Kendall Jenner, right? She was Kendall Jenner and Odell Beckham when Odell Beckham was on the New York Giants in the ad together.
And it was going to be them in the shower with the jeans on. Right. And our partners were like, ah, Kendall Jenner, she's, she's cheesy. Um, let's get, let's get, let's, I mean not Kendall Jenner, Kylie Jenner. And that's a very important distinction. It was Kylie Jenner. She's like, [00:20:00] let's get Kendall Jenner, she's a model, um, they wanted the woman that was in Tomb Raider, I forgot, I can't think of her name, um, and then, and then they're like, Odell Beckham, he's too urban, right, and I was like, I wasn't offended, although I was offended, I, I respectfully
told them,
Marc Beckman: mean? What is too urban mean? Too black?
Jameel Spencer: basically, it's code for too black, but
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Jameel Spencer: I was, it's fine, I'm, I'm, you know, I've been black my whole life, you're not gonna surprise me with these types of things, right, so, um, First of all, I told them I would be remiss if I didn't tell you you were wrong, and then I quickly pivoted, and I put, I ended up putting Bella Hadid before Bella was Bella, and I put Matthew Naska, um, who today is like a big time model, I put, and he was, and he had actually just been discovered on Ellen.
He was a guy who had posted a picture of himself with his shirt off on Instagram, and Nike saw it and put him in an ad campaign, right? And so no one had ever heard of him. So I put Bella, and Matthew in the campaign. [00:21:00] Fast forward, we're doing an event to launch the campaign, I'm walking through the airport and Bella Hadid is on the cover of Harper's Bazaar for the first time ever.
So now she's become this big star. Um, in the same airport magazine shop was, um, Kylie Jenner on the cover of Time Magazine as the first billionaire in beauty, right? Um, by the way, I knew that Odell Beckham was right because Odell Beckham had a mohawk and dyed the top of his hair blonde. And
Marc Beckman: remember he
Jameel Spencer: kids around the world were dyeing their hair blonde.
He was, he had an impacted culture. In a way that no one had seen since Allen Iverson with the, with the cornrows and the tattoos, right? And so, so, um, it was great for me to tell them that, by the way, you were wrong, right? Because Kylie, and I told them, Kendall Jenner's great. If we're doing a runway show, put Kendall Jenner in it.
We're trying to move culture, let's use Kylie. You [00:22:00] know the reason I thought, I knew Kylie was relevant? Because Kylie was the one who had the amazing style, her taste level, and she was dating black guys. Right? She was dating black guys. Kendall Jenner was not dating black guys. So I knew. It's the same way I put, um, Kate Upton in the campaign.
You, right? I literally, on the set of our campaign, she got the cover of Sports Illustrated's swimsuit issue. While she was, I, I paid her 60, 000. I, I would hire her three years later and pay her 300, 000. Right? Because she was so big. I, and, and, and, um, the reason why I chose Kate was because She was predisposed to culture.
She was known, there was a video of her doing the Dougie at a, at a, doing a black dance at a Yankees game. She was rumored to
have been, she was, she was, she was rumored to be dating Kanye West. And she had a website that I knew young boys went to, to do maybe things that we don't want to talk about on here.
Right. And so I knew that she, she just, [00:23:00] she, she's kind of checked the boxes that somebody, Who was going to be, she was predisposed to something that was bigger than just where she was from. She's this girl from the Midwest, and she's, you know, rumored to be dating Kanye West. And she's doing this dance at the Yankee game, right?
So like, I know what it looks like. I've always known what it looks like. Um, and so, yeah, you know, you gotta, it's almost like a dial though, right?
Marc Beckman: Right. So when you dial up data,
Jameel Spencer: Well, well, I accept. The, the data is important to help the people who don't know it inherently believe it, right? So, but I have, but like I said, the cultural intelligence that I have goes outside of the data.
So sometimes I have to dial it back to something that's a little bit more palatable because of the audience that I'm, that I'm kind of designing towards, right? And that's why, quite honestly, it's always been important for [00:24:00] me, personally. To have sort of equal parts brands that um, other people own because those help pay the bills and then brands that I can own myself so I can, it can really be like, great, cause I feel like sometimes you're not allowed to be great if the data doesn't support it, right?
If you can't, like, no one wants to be first, like Coca Cola can't afford to be first. They probably could win in a really, really big way if they were, but they can't afford it. So they got to be, it's got to be a little safer. And I think data is the safety net, right? Data is the way that the people who don't come from the culture get comfortable around culture.
Marc Beckman: that's interesting. So it's almost like to, it's like a third party validation. So you I understand. your cultural intelligence and you're like, here are the celebrities we need to activate surrounding this campaign, surrounding this brand, surrounding this product. And then your executive management, management team might have some doubts about it.
Data backs it up, you're off to the races. [00:25:00] Let's talk about cultural intelligence, though, for a second. I love that concept, this idea of CI, right? Yeah. Intelligence. Tell me, in 2025, what do you predict is going to be relevant as it relates to culture and music, culture and fashion, culture and art?
Jameel Spencer: Yeah. So if you think about, and this is, um, this is proven, right? Anytime anything goes too far in one direction. We're on our way to the other direction, right? And, and, and maybe this is like wishful thinking, but I think that, you know, integrity, um, authenticity, being a good person, I would, if I'm looking at, like, if you look at culture, by the way, this is a great way to bring it back to Puff, quite honestly, right?
Um, you know, um, just for the record, like, one of my dearest friends, love him to death, his kids are like my kids, his kids grew up with my kids, but somewhere along the line, he led success. Make him, um, go so far [00:26:00] off the grid that he put himself in harm's way, right? Um, where you look at Jay Z on the other hand, who very famously, very publicly, um, you know, cheated on his, on like the most beautiful woman in the world and decided to double down and become more of a family man, right?
And then, and you see where their, where their, where their trajectories are going, two separate directions. So I would say that, you know, Heart, a heart, having a heart is going to be in vogue. Um, I think no matter what, I think inclusivity is about to be in vogue. I think, um, and I think it's going to be challenged, right?
And I think that, I think the challenge is actually a good thing. Like sometimes you got to make people so uncomfortable that they realize how much that, how, how, how necessary things are. So I'm going to tell you that, like there's an artist, Mickalene Thomas. She's a good friend of mine. Right. She is a lesbian woman who sees women, [00:27:00] women of color in particular, but women generally in a light that's very similar like to how da Vinci was painting figures back in, in the day, right?
And so, and you're seeing that she's super duper successful, right? You're seeing like even just the black art world in general being something that, that always was like disproportionate in terms of like the value of it. But now the value is increasing and so I'm gonna tell you that family, you know, those, those core values that this, that, that, that, that at least people told you this country was founded on, I think we're gonna see sort of those things being restored because I think, you know, I knew that today, this is the day after the election, I knew that today no matter who won, it was gonna unlock an energy that was unhealthy, but Sometimes it's like you go to the gym and you work out, right?
And after you finish working out, you're super sore, but that's, you know, the, the, the pain is part of the change. And so [00:28:00] I think we're in a time where the world is going to change. The world has no, has no choice, but to change. Because like I said, when things go too far in one direction, they're going to come back in another.
I think that, you know, music about songs about love, there's no songs about love, right? And it's funny because my kids, because they live in my house. All sort of are aware of songs about love, and they're not only aware of songs about love, they are seeing a healthy relationship between a man and a woman, right?
They're seeing, they know that I love my wife, right? And that's important because if you look at even like film and television, you don't see a lot of healthy relationships, right?
Marc Beckman: Agreed. We're living in like a destructive cultural moment right now where people are attracted to, you know, plane crashes and, and fire and debate and evil rhetoric and what you're talking about as it relates Hey, hey,
Jameel Spencer: [00:29:00] hate is like in vogue. You can, if you go on Instagram. For 20 minutes, you were running to hate a hundred times, right? And, and that, that can't be what the world was meant to be. It
can't. do we get that then, Jameel? Like when I was a kid, you and I are the same age, so when we were both growing up, um, it felt like leadership was different. Maybe we were inspired by Business leaders, art leaders, whoever it might be, um, even political leaders. But now if you step out and look at like, like, do you personally have someone at the, um, like federal state or local level of politics that inspires you every day that You know? that you look at and say, I'm going to get out of the bed today.
Marc Beckman: I'm going to be a better person. Or are you inspired by your children? Um, who are, are making you work harder, be more creative, et cetera. Yeah, I would say, I would listen, I think Barack Obama gave a like, you know, gave a [00:30:00] vision. I think if you look at him and, and not even his politics, but like his relationship with his wife, his children, his journey, I think he showed like something that I think it was important to black, especially so like a
Jameel Spencer: black man.
Marc Beckman: To everyone. Yeah. by it
Jameel Spencer: And I grew up without my dad in the house, right? So like, like, so for me growing up, like Muhammad Ali was my dad, right? Like he was, I looked at Muhammad Ali, I wanted to be him. Right? Um, except for the fighting part. Um, I would say I am, um, I am acutely aware of my responsibility and I, and I will tell you that I believe in my heart of hearts that my superpower is that I'm supposed to be the best dad and husband and, and, and, and executive.
Right? So I'm somebody that people look at and say, wow, like that's, that's a successful, healthy. And as a result, all of the things that come with that are supposed to permeate that to the rest of the world.
Marc Beckman: So Jameel,
Jameel Spencer: is
Marc Beckman: a
Jameel Spencer: my responsibility.
Marc Beckman: how does a brand [00:31:00] act that way then? Like let's take, like, like pick one of the brands in your portfolio just for exemplary purposes.
Jameel Spencer: Klein is a perfect example.
Marc Beckman: how does it not say. Love, integrity, respect. How does it be love, integrity, respect?
Jameel Spencer: you got So people don't, don't Buy what you do, they buy how you make them feel. So when we started working on, and when we bought Ann Klein in 2018, it had become a label. It wasn't a brand. Right. And, but if you go back and do the research and to the early days, Ann Klein was a female entrepreneur in the late, in the, in the sixties.
Right. In a, in a male dominated world of fashion. She was kind of ahead of her time in terms of diversity and inclusion, putting women of color on the runway in Paris at the famous Battle of Versailles. Um, you know, in the ad campaigns, there was Cindy Crawford and these supermodels, right? But she made clothes for the everyday woman to wear in the workplace.
And just imagine who [00:32:00] that was in the late 60s. Like, women even being in the workplace. Was damn near like, you know, an oxymoron. So it was like, you know, like women in the workplace, like that was a time when we were watching all in the family and he was, he was calling Edith the dummy and wanted her just to stay home and cook the dinner and shut up.
Right.
Marc Beckman: Yep.
Jameel Spencer: If you think, if you watch, you watch those shows from back in the, and I love those shows. Right. But you watch them now, they hit different because
Marc Beckman: agree.
Jameel Spencer: things that they said and what they were promoting were so negative. It was very similar to now. Right? And then, you know, things went to other direction and maybe they go too far in another direction so it makes people want to go back to what they used to be.
But, so Anne Klein was a label. We first started on the product because product is king. If you lead a horse to water and, and the water don't taste good, the horse ain't gonna drink no more any, no matter what. So we focused on the product, making it feel like one brand. But we also store, we stored some of the core tenets of what the brand was about.[00:33:00]
And so we started, if you think about Cindy Crawford in the early eighties as a supermodel, what would be the modern day version of that? So our modern day version of that was Joan Smalls. Joan Smalls is a Puerto Rican Dominican supermodel,
Marc Beckman: her.
Jameel Spencer: right?
Marc Beckman: human
Jameel Spencer: was gracing the cover of
Marc Beckman: her
Jameel Spencer: Vogue.
Marc Beckman: Love her.
Jameel Spencer: Yeah, she's, she's amazing.
Right. Um, and then we said, you know what, we're no longer going to ask models to show up as models. We're going to hire models as themselves. And then commission them for two days. So one day we're going to make art and shoot beautiful images. The next day we're going to be about purpose. And our purpose for the Aaron Klein brand is really to celebrate and empower the community of women at all ages.
We're going to meet them at every age that they are because we do think that You know, and by the way, the way women dress in the workplace is different now, right, like, like even the way we're dressed now, right, this is different, like, you know, there was a time that if you sit in an office like this, or [00:34:00] I'm on 5th Avenue between 44th and 45th, you have tie and suit on,
right,
Marc Beckman: day. Every
Jameel Spencer: um, and, and women probably have even more sort of, you know, elasticity in terms of like how they, they, they can show up, and so, we wanted to make sure that we restored, put purpose and put a heart back into the brand, and so, You know, with Joan, we partnered with, um, Girls Inc.,
which is like a group of young, a group for like, uh, high school age students who are interested in the future in the fashion business. We had them come and do a mentoring session with Joan and Nada DeVere, who's our partner at Macy's, so it's equal parts, there's purpose, but there's also commerce going on.
Nada DeVere is the most senior woman at Macy's, and by the way, she's like, 39 years old and she's the chief merchandising officer. So that's powerful and inspirational in and of itself. Right. And then we, and then, and then Joan dressed every one of the women, which was 12 girls. We dressed every one of them in Anne Klein from head to toe and basically gave them something to wear when they go to their, their interviews.
Marc Beckman: heard [00:35:00] of anything like that before, Jameel.
Jameel Spencer: Yeah. So it's, you know, it's really important, man. You know, again, For me, like, I understand, like, who I am in the world, and so, and, and, and if I get an opportunity to sit in these rooms, then I have an obligation, and the obligation is to be inclusive in terms of the storytelling, to have a purpose, and get, and reach a hand back to, you know, not just the younger generation, but also, like, we did a thing with, um, Candace Swanepoel, also a supermodel, right?
We did a thing with Candice and we worked with Custom Collaborative. Custom Collaborative is basically like the adult version of Girls Inc. So it's women who are, you know, 40 to 50 years old who are trying to get like a second chance and looking for opportunities in the fashion business. So we sponsored a cohort of 15 women.
We paid for their whole program. They do like a 14 week program where they learn how to sew. They learn how to create. You know, tech packs, they really learn, like, the basic [00:36:00] foundationary skills that are necessary to be in the fashion business. And we did a luncheon with Candice, we donated a bunch of stuff, I spoke at their graduation.
Like, we really want to, um, you know, give our brands a heart and a soul because
Marc Beckman: So you're empowering, in that instance, you're empowering these individuals to be autonomous, to have a career path. Did you, did you keep in touch with any of the participants? Do you know if you had, um, any kind of like great payoff story?
Jameel Spencer: Absolutely. So, so it was interesting. One of the, one of the, um, part, we did a, Gina Rodriguez from Jane the Virgin. She's actually on the show with Shaquille O'Neal now, which is interesting. Um, Gina Rodriguez, an actress. Um, from Jane the Virgin, the show Jane the Virgin, we, we, we worked with her one season and we partnered with Fashion Scholarship Fund.
And we did a design contest, so we, there was three finalists, and then the winning design got their, they got their t shirt put in our ad campaign. So we shot the actual designer, who was a young woman, I think she went to FIT, um, with Gina, and then we, she ended up getting a job at one of our licensees.
Marc Beckman: Amazing. [00:37:00]
Jameel Spencer: is the, we wanna, we wanna continue, and it's not, listen,
And it's
Marc Beckman: that emotional, true emotional connection between the consumer and the brand. That's going to bring so much more value, longevity. Um, it brings loyalty to the brand. That's, that's amazing stuff. The Jameel,
Jameel Spencer: not enough to do well, right? You gotta do good. And by the way, it actually, at the same time, becomes good business.
Marc Beckman: I love the Anne Klein story. Something that you might not be aware of is I go, I had a big, um, Mom, I had a few big moments with the Anne Klein brand and one of my favorite things that our agency did with Anne Klein was we put the legendary, very strong, Amazingly talented woman, Isabel Toledo, in as creative director.
I'm sure you remember those
Jameel Spencer: Absolutely.
Marc Beckman: the windows at Barneys, Anna Wintour sat in the front row. It was a moment where, like, we were trying to, like, revitalize the brand at the luxury tier, and she created an incredible, uh, Collection. Let me ask you a question though. [00:38:00] Like, so we talk a little bit about celebrity marketing.
We took a little bit about influencer marketing, cause related market marketing. I'm still hung up on the concept of CI, but where does technology come into play? Like data analytics is one piece of it, but I feel like that's in every marketer's toolkit these days. What about emerging technology, Jameel? Do you, do you have artificial intelligence on any of your brand's radars right now?
Jameel Spencer: Absolutely. Listen, uh, it's funny, um, you know, as you get older, right, these things are gonna come, and they're going to impact culture in a way that if you don't adapt, you become obsolete. So, it's interesting because even like the chat GBT thing where like there's people now and I think they even have it like on the phone like kind of inherently where you can like type something and they can make it sound more, more, um, clever, right?
Um, I actually was annoyed by that because, you know, I sound clever. Organically. So I was like, man, you're letting these people catch [00:39:00] up to me. But the reality is this, the train is coming and you're going to either get on it or you're going to get run over by it, right? And so AI, we have, we actually have a couple of task force here.
So we're using AI to do all our PDP images for our fashion brands. Um, you're, you're seeing AI being used in an amazing way. around advertising, you know, that there's a, there's a, um, Dior ad with Rihanna in it, right. And where, like, I'm watching it and I'm like, wow, this is really, really cool. Um, so it's something that's happening.
And if we don't figure out the way to be a part of it, then we will, we will be in the past. We'll be in the rear view mirror of that train. Um, so yeah, it's, it's definitely something that we are, you know, and, and it's interesting because I talk about, like, cultural intelligence, you know, this is something that I'm studying, right.
I'm something I'm studying and it's actually. How our kids will grow up.
Marc Beckman: but the cultural intelligence, it's interesting because you're going to use AI as a tool. Your cultural intelligence will allow for you to figure out how you want to activate
Jameel Spencer: percent,
Marc Beckman: AI as it relates to perhaps, [00:40:00] uh, content creation, developing business efficiencies, less expensive, uh, production of content, a more frequent delivery system, et cetera, et cetera.
But you're still going to have an advantage in the, as an individual, as a brand marketer, because you have a high level of CI.
Jameel Spencer: a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And, and, and by the way, none of artificial intelligence is only as good as the data that you put into it, right? So you gotta put the right ingredients to get the right output. And so, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a, um, an increasing fan of it. Um, the more I learn about it, the more mesmerized I am by it.
Um, and I think it's, I think it's amazing. I mean, even just like from something simple as like. My playlist in the gym, right? Like it's really like it knows who I am, right? Like the songs that it plays and you know, I am, I'm complicated. I like Biggie Smalls and I like Stevie Wonder, right? And it's playing all those songs for me.
So yeah, I am, I'm, I'm become a bigger and bigger fan the more I learn [00:41:00] about it and it's inevitable that it will be a part of sort of the marketing mix. And so I want to, I want to be better at it because you know, you want to continue to hone your craft as a marketer.
Marc Beckman: Jameel, Christmas is right around the corner and I know that for guys like you sitting in that CMO perch, it's a critical time period. You need to go in there and just get tons of profit right out of this fourth quarter. What are you planning that's super exciting or groundbreaking for any of your brands within your portfolio during this Christmas season?
Jameel Spencer: Yeah, I mean, listen, we are, um, sort of equal parts, um, content and commerce, right? So we've, we've built, you know, and it's ironic because you actually shoot all that stuff, you know, a long time ago. Which is interesting because by the time you get to, like, using it, you're, like, on to the next, like, I'm, I'm, I'm working on, I'm actually about to shoot my spring campaign, like, next week.
Right. Um, but yeah, we, we have, um, built a bunch of storytelling, um, you know, making [00:42:00] it sort of, uh, utilitarian in terms of like, you know, understanding who our customer is and meeting her, he, him or her, where she, they are and show, and showing them sort of how to engage with our products, what's special about our products, um, you know, promotions, you know, which, you know, marketers hate, like I hate when you're on the website and it's like, you know, 20 percent off, um, but just being a little bit more clever around like.
Creating value for our brands. But most of that stuff we did literally six months ago. Um, and it's kind of just coming to fruition. And then we've done, we've done, we've done a bunch of, um, sort of experiences as well. So, and this was not necessarily for holiday per se, but just recently for Ann Kline. Ann Kline, the, the woman actually died of breast cancer.
Um, and so we are a, we, we, we contribute to the, uh, BCRF Breast Cancer Research Fund. And we partnered with our talent, our ambassador for Fall 24, Saris Impeyo, also one of the
Marc Beckman: yeah. You
Jameel Spencer: Secret artists.
Marc Beckman: the most [00:43:00] beautiful models
Jameel Spencer: Yeah, and she's actually going to be in Superman in 2025. She's actually acting now.
Marc Beckman: Cultural intelligence.
Jameel Spencer: did an event, um, outside of Macy's where we basically gave away breast exams, free breast exams to women who came.
We set up and we had her on, we had her on Good Day New York and she taught there. So, you know, it was very well attended. Um, so just really just continuing to just be who we are,
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Jameel Spencer: and then find ways to like sort of, um, you know, productize our messaging. So people, cause you know, right now people have access to a lot of different, you know, options.
We just want to be one of them. We don't, we don't expect anyone to wear our brands head to toe, but we want to be one of the things that you think of when you think about gift giving.
Marc Beckman: Shamil, you, in the beginning of the conversation, you referenced, um, you know, Puff and, and you spoke about how he's a close friend of yours, one of your best friends. I actually pulled a quote, it goes all the way back, um, where he spoke about you. [00:44:00] um, I don't know if you'll remember this, but he said, Jameel is a close personal friend, a trusted partner.
He's a young leader with a tremendous future in marketing and advertising. That quote goes back, I think like 2020, maybe more than 20 years ago. Um, I'm curious, like we're talking a lot of, there's a lot of emotion in this conversation, integrity, heart. Um, respect, uh, with everything that's happening in the news these days with regards to Puff, how do you, uh, feel he's being treated?
What do you think is going to happen just, you know, with regards to this, you know,
Jameel Spencer: Yeah, I mean,
listen, story, this crazy news cycle?
yeah, I think that, um. You know, my, my perspective is very, um, specific and very personal, right? So like, you know, the person I, and, and by the way, it's interesting to hear that statement, right? Because again, like I told you, he saw something in me before. Maybe I was aware of it myself, or maybe it was something I aware I was aware of and I forgot.
And [00:45:00] he reminded me of it. Right. Um, but I'd say this, um, Um, I've, I've always been the person that's here in front of you right now, right? It's always been a part of who I was, and maybe I wasn't always acting like it, but it was always who I was, and he saw that in me. So I was always the person, like, I would be, I would never be aware of any of the types of things that there's, that's suggesting about this man.
Because that's kind of not, it wasn't my brand. So if those things were happening, they were happening, you know, around me, and I would be unaware of them because I would never go for it, right? Um, I would say this. You know, we're living in a world where public opinion becomes, like, the, the reality. I think some of it is so, like, over the top that it's, like, kind of not plausible to begin with.
But, listen, one thing you can't unsee is the image of him and Cassie. You can't unsee that. And I, you know, I loved her, um, I was very close with her as well. I still believe, I still, you know, have a very fond of her as a human being, very happy for her and how she's moved on with her [00:46:00] life. You can't unsee that.
Um, I would say this, this is my real honest opinion of the whole Puff thing is, somewhere along the line, he became so drunk with power, and I think they're drugs, I think drugs are really, really, um, at the centerpiece of this whole thing. And so, I don't know what's true and what's not true, I would tell you that probably a lot of this stuff, he doesn't know what's true or not true.
Right? But at the end of the day, man, like, my focus is, like, his children, his children, like I said, I I've known the kids since they were born. I've been to the football games. I've been flipping Christian in the pool. Like, that's my family. And the time someone needs you is not when they're doing well.
There's a lot of people. Those parties, and I'm not talking about the parties that people are talking about, I'm talking about the iconic, like, the white party. Like, you know, his events, which was a big part of his prowess as an entrepreneur, was that he just knew how to bring people together and do [00:47:00] amazing events.
You know, those things were people, like, killing themselves to be invited to those events. And all of those people, um, are now nowhere to be seen, right? Um, and so I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna, um, I'm gonna stand by his children. I'm gonna be, you know, the uncle that I've always been, um, and I'm gonna hope that, you know, that this stuff is not true, um, and if it's true, I'm gonna hope, I'm, I'm, everything happens the way it's supposed to happen, right?
I'm guessing that whatever's going on right now is probably better than the alternative, right? Because I think he might have been on a journey that was gonna end way worse than this, and this is pretty frickin bad, right? So just imagine if something worse was in store, um, and this is better. You know, uh, you know, I, I never questioned God.
Let's, let's say that.
Marc Beckman: So, so are you saying, just so I understand, um, are you saying like Diddy was so mixed up in drug use himself that he was on a crash course with death? Like he [00:48:00] I, I, either, get arrested and stop this machine of personal destruction, um, or literally die.
Jameel Spencer: I, I believe that. I believe that in my heart of hearts.
Marc Beckman: Wow. That's crazy. Have you spoke with him at all?
Have you been able to see
Jameel Spencer: Uh, I've been, like I said, I've been to court, um, two of the last three, uh, tr uh, dates. Um, and I haven't been able to actually talk to him, but I've, you know, waved from, from afar. Um, but you know, he knows, he knows I'm there. He knows I'm there supporting. I talk to his kids pretty regularly. Um, you know, that's, and that again.
That's the most important part because like I said my kids and his kids grew up together like my my daughter and His son graduated from high school together. They've been friends since they were two years old So, you know, that's that's that's really the focus right now because no matter what I know one thing for sure They are guilty of nothing.
Marc Beckman: Well, it's interesting because Diddy's like been this incredible marketer who's been able to reinvent himself and create, um, you [00:49:00] know, culture around him, a brand portfolio, as you alluded to, um, you know, unlike any other, really, it's been incredible what he's, created. Do you think that the media is giving him, is maligning him?
Do you think that it's fair that now the entire world thinks that he's guilty of all of these atrocities? Essentially like the media has decided that he's guilty, right? And therefore now the public thinks he's guilty. What's your take on
Jameel Spencer: I Think the world we live in it doesn't matter if it's fair. I think it's in you know I mean, it's irrelevant like nobody wants nobody wants to consider That that doesn't like You don't get credit for it not being fair. Like that, it's just kind of like, because you could say on the other hand, um, when things were going well, you know, they were a part of that inertia as well.
Right? So like, you know, what, what builds you up is the same thing that can pull you down. And so, and you, and you have to contribute to it one way or the other.
it [00:50:00] definitely feels like a lot, right? but whether it's fair or not is kind of irrelevant, like it kind of is what it is and he's got to deal with it.
Um, and you know, it seems like more of the stuff will come out as, as, as the thing moves forward. Um, and I'm just, you know, wishing him the best. No,
I man, Jameel. You have integrity. I appreciate that.
appreciate that.
Marc Beckman: Jameel, you've given us a ton of time today. I end my show, um, the same way with every guest. The name of the show, as you know, is Some Future Day. It was inspired by James Joyce. And what I try to do is I start a sentence which incorporates the words Some Future Day and then I allow for my guest to finish it.
Jameel Spencer: Mm hmm.
Marc Beckman: Are you game?
Jameel Spencer: I love it.
Marc Beckman: Okay. In some future day, culture will become Some Future Day.
Jameel Spencer: The guiding force to the change the world needs.
Marc Beckman: I love that. That's actually beautiful. So in some future day, culture will become the guiding [00:51:00] force to the change the world needs.
Jameel Spencer: Yep, desperately needs. Let's add that to it.
Marc Beckman: Beautiful. Jameel, is there anything else you want to add in before we, before we go?
Jameel Spencer: No, man, I appreciate the time, man. Listen, um, it's interesting in life that, um, you know, we're living in a time where people through social media promote themselves. And if you look at my social media, I don't promote myself at all. I probably haven't posted anything. I, I, I post stories and they're typically like, Reposting things that other people have done.
Um, and I've always prided myself kind of being the man behind the man. You know, that was a good space for me. So I appreciate this opportunity to step out in front because I think that's kind of my calling now. I think it's important for me to show up in these types of ways to show the world that there's value in being a good person.
Right? Um, and it's funny because there was a time, um, Before where, [00:52:00] you know, I'll say this, I think that when you put yourself out there, you open yourself up to scrutiny. And I feel super duper confident that there's nothing about how I'm living my life and how I show up today as a human being that can be scrutinized.
Like, I am living in my truth. I'm proud of it. I want my kids to be proud of it. I want my family to be proud of it. I want my people to be proud of it. And so I appreciate you giving me this opportunity and this platform. To do that, and I promise you that I'm going to be doing more of it going forward.
Marc Beckman: It's truly my honor. Honestly, I think that you're a great leader. I've known you for a long, long time. I've seen what you've done as a business person with brands. And I know as an individual, whenever we interact, you're always super respectful, kind and funny and cool. So I appreciate you, Jameel Spencer.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Jameel Spencer: Appreciate you, man. Have a good one.
[00:53:00]