Some Future Day

Marc Beckman: Nathan McCauley, it is so great to have you join me today on some [00:02:00] future day. Welcome.
Nathan McCauley: Uh, thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Marc Beckman: Nathan, um, it was great. You and I connected in person, uh, at the White House Crypto, uh, Summit, and it was really a pleasure getting to know you. We, we spoke a little bit and I found your background, your founder's story, your life story, really interesting and, and the more research I did in preparation for today's conversation, I realized you really haven't put that out there much.
So going back to, um, Indiana, where it all started, can you share a little bit about your childhood, what that was like growing up, where you came from?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, number one, Marc. It was, it was great to, great to meet you at the, the White House event that was such a, uh, really kind of a historic event for, for crypto and what it means, uh, for crypto and for America. So that, that really felt great. And then getting to meet you was, uh, kind of icing on the cake for me.
Marc Beckman: Aw, thank [00:03:00] you.
Nathan McCauley: Um, yeah, you're right. I mean, growing up in Indiana, I. Uh, was the, the, in a, in a family where dad worked at a, the dog food factory, uh, there, it was called, uh, Hills Pet Nutrition. We, they, they made, uh, made dog food. There's actually two dog food factories, uh, in my, in my hometown. And, um, basically everyone, there was either a farmer or a factory worker that was, that was basically all the, all the profession that was there.
Uh, and so, so grew up seeing that, growing up with, with that was the only thing that I knew. But early on, uh, you know, developed an interest in computers and so over time, uh, that just really, that really took for me, um, so eventually figured out, okay, I might, might eventually need to get out of Indiana. It looks like a lot of the, a lot of the tech gets built on the west coast.
Uh, but I still carry a lot of that, um, Indiana, uh, notion with me. And so it's, uh, it was, uh, it was a great place to grow up. Maybe even, um, uh, a place that uh, that might, might go back to someday.
Marc Beckman: In [00:04:00] Indiana. Specifically, which part?
Nathan McCauley: So I grew up more towards, uh, the, the border with Ohio a along I 70. Uh, so the, the, the county is Wayne County. Uh, there's a town there called Richmond. There's a town called Centerville that I lived in for a while, but then kind of finished out my time there in this really small town of about 150, 160 people called Economy Indiana.
Uh, and so that was, you know, one of these, one of these where there's not even a stoplight in the town. It was a yellow blinker. People would drive right through, uh, but really just kind of a, a rural farming community. And, um, just one of these places where everybody knows everybody, uh, quite literally, uh, because they're all in a, in a small community together.
Um, so that was a, that was a really great place.
Marc Beckman: So that's really America, right, Nathan? I mean, that's tough. Those are tough people. They work hard. I bet you a lot of those families are multi-generational farmers. People that work in, in the factories. What's, what's that spirit like in [00:05:00] that, in that, um, environment? I.
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, there's, um, a, a general, general feeling that you, you get up in the morning and you do what needs to be done. Uh, whether that is, what is this factory work that is farming, uh, there's not, um, there's not time to be, uh, shall we say, burnt out or anything like that. It's like there's work, uh, and the, and the work needs to be done.
And so that's, uh, kind of always how I, how I grew up. Um, I, I got to experience it myself. We do a lot of, uh, say landscaping projects. Uh, we do that at home. We built, always built our own decks, always built our own, um, things ourselves. Uh, so familiarity with, uh, power tools and, and growing up in that, in that.
Uh, background was kinda all I was always from, and it's really all we ever knew. Um, and only in hindsight did I, uh, kind of look at it and think that it was anything other than normal. Uh, you know, I, I thought everybody either grew, grew crops, raised [00:06:00] animals, or made stuff. And when I say made stuff is like, made stuff in a factory.
Marc Beckman: So that's all the jobs I ever saw. That's all I ever was, uh, experienced. Um, and so kind of that thread has been consistent through my life and I've always kind of tried to.
It seems very normal to me in fact. I think most Americans can really relate to that story. how big was your family, Nathan? Did you have, do you have a lot of siblings?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, so, um, I had three siblings, uh, so an, an older brother, younger brother and younger sister. And so a family of four. And, um, we've, uh, we've all gone on to greatness. Uh, it's been, it's been fun to kind of see where everyone's, uh, everyone's ended up, uh, got a brother in real estate. My sister's a nurse.
I'm, I'm an entrepreneur. Uh, and so that's always been a, uh, always been great to kind of see them, uh, end up where they've been. Uh, but yeah, it's fun. It's fun growing up, a big family. I'm a big proponent of big families, uh, and, uh, looking forward to having one myself.
Marc Beckman: [00:07:00] Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think, um, people don't realize that when you're in a small town like that, um, that is. Um, sparse as it relates to resources, other people access to, you know, whether it's entertainment or even like big shopping, right? Like I remember I told you I spent a lot of time in Indiana.
I have had big clients in Indiana, like Indie 500 and Finish Line. And, and I, I told you part of my personal story, um, I remember like I had to get to a Walmart to buy some baby clothing and I literally drove two hours to get to the Walmart. So it gets, it gives people a chance to like be in their head also to think a lot.
So I'm curious, like while you were in Indiana, did you start thinking in ways of dreaming? Like, I want, I want to maybe leave this town and, and, and become entrepreneurial. I'm inspired to build an innovative tech company or like, were you in your [00:08:00] head at all? Did, did that, did the land give you a sense of the land and honestly like the sky too with the stars and all?
Like, did you have a chance to think.
Nathan McCauley: That's a, that's an interesting. When I, sometimes when I get, uh, a little fed up with say all the distractions and interruptions, certainly being an entrepreneur comes with a lot of things coming at you all at the same time. And then we have, of course, Twitter and other social media that is, uh, kind of distraction driven.
It. It is funny because a lot of times when I'm feeling particularly overwhelmed or just like a lot of things are coming me, I think about time and economy as how life was just simpler. And a lot of why I think of as simpler is because it was. More pre-internet, pre-social media, but in a real sense, you might be right.
There's something about just that location, um, the simplicity of life, uh, that, that kept us going. Uh, I will say, even though it was, you know, that that hour drive to Walmart is very familiar to me. I, I, [00:09:00] I do that drive me many times. It was almost like something to get excited about. Like, Hey, we're gonna go to the Walmart.
We're gonna, we're gonna get out tonight. Um, yeah, it was a, it was a, it was a simpler time and that was, uh, part of probably what, what led to, um, giving some thought things. I did, me and my family did keep ourselves really busy, though. We were, um. Really into board games. We played a lot of risk really, into yard games.
We paid a tremendous amount of croquet. In fact, we were so into croquet that we set up a, uh, we set up a floodlight so that we could play after dark, uh, because we wanted to be able to keep playing. Uh, so I'd say even though it was, uh, there was plenty of time to be thoughtful, we, we did still keep ourselves busy and have a good time.
Marc Beckman: So you moved, um, from Indiana West, um, at a, at a pretty, pretty young age. Huh?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah. Yeah. So basically went to, went to school in Indiana and then, um, met, um, met who had become my [00:10:00] wife. Uh, we started dating freshman year of college and then got married directly after graduation. Uh, literally. Two weeks later we got married and then two weeks after that we moved to San Francisco. Um, and so, um, from rural Indiana to get married two weeks later to then, uh, move to the big city, uh, that's, that's the, that was the path.
And it's funny to your earlier question about, you know, were you, was there any part of me that was like trying to get out? I wasn't, I wasn't at all trying to get out. I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily running from anything. I actually really liked life there. Uh, this was more about specifically wanting to get into tech.
And the realization at the time that like, if you wanted to be in tech, the answer was to go to San Francisco. Um, so, um, my wife, Michelle and I, we looked up the, looked at the landscape, said, okay, tech gets built in California, let's move to California. So we, we packed up all our things, moved to, um. Moved to San Francisco site unseen.
[00:11:00] We hadn't, we didn't, we'd never visited, hadn't even looked at the, uh, apartment we moved into, showed up. It was far smaller than we thought, but then we, uh, we moved in and got going and it was, uh, it was, it was fun and it worked. We made it,
Marc Beckman: What was the first, uh, thing that really stuck out in your mind, um, regarding San Francisco for inspiration purposes? Was it the food, the architecture, uh, the hills? Like what, what struck you as, you know, it's such, there is such a contrast between where you came from in Indiana to San Francisco. So what was the first thing that hit you?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, so we, we moved into this, uh, neighborhood in San Francisco. San Francisco's a very neighborhood focused, moved into this one called Knob Hill. And, um, every, everything was different about life. And so you, you go to the laundromat to do your laundry, uh, you walk your groceries up the, up the hill, uh, when you, after you go buy them, uh, and the, the city is [00:12:00] always kind of bustling.
There's always people going around. Very big difference from going from a town of 160 people to a big city like San Francisco in many ways, I would say, although I moved within the same country. I did feel like an immigrant. I felt like someone coming from an entirely different culture, an entirely different world, uh, and trying to adjust, trying to fit in.
And in many ways I had to, um, had to figure out what, what life was like. Uh, one, one funny story that happened there. I remember I would went in the office and there's this little water machine and the water machine. Um. Had this button you could press and you'd like press the, press the button to get some water.
I started drinking the water and I was like, oh, this is disgusting. Um, because it was, it was carbonated water. Uh, and from, from my point of view, it was like, oh, this is how the water tastes when the syrup line isn't in it from McDonald's. 'cause I, I worked at McDonald's when I was in, in high school. I [00:13:00] was like, okay, there's something wrong.
Uh, there's not a, like a syrup line to put in some sort of coke or something else in here, so there must be something busted. Turns out, no, that's just what San Francisco people do. They, they drink carbonated water. Uh, and so, uh, there, you know, that was one of, you know, many, many lessons that I learned after I, after I moved there.
But, um, lots of, lots of adjustments and, and fun to be had.
Marc Beckman: Did you hold a lot of jobs when you were younger, pre San Francisco, like you mentioned McDonald's. Did you, did you, um, as a young man work and, and earn your own money and,
Nathan McCauley: Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, it's funny, it's always, people always ask me like, Hey, what was your, what was your first job? Um, and like, strictly speaking, uh, first what you might call W2 job would be at McDonald's. I did, um, did a good amount of time at McDonald's, but I had actually always been working, even growing up.
So my mom was, uh, mostly a stay at home mom, but at nights she would clean office buildings or clean churches. She was a janitor. And so I would go [00:14:00] along with her and I would be the, um, I would be the vacuumer. So I would vacuum large office buildings, vacuum, um, church, uh. Congregation or, uh, the, the, you know, chapels, like large buildings like that.
And so first like paid job was like, you know, mom paid me to, to help her out on that, uh, as I was growing up. Um, and then formally worked at McDonald's for a while. I worked at a, a vet clinic. I was the, the weekend, uh, kennel guy that took care of the animals there. So yeah, held a, held a variety of jobs over, uh, over time while I was in, uh, you know, in youth and then throughout high school.
Marc Beckman: But on this show, like there's often like this philosophical, um, contradiction between capitalism, free market and socialism, communism. But something that, uh, I never really have a chance to talk about is work ethic. And it's interesting because your background and then where you, you know, what you've [00:15:00] built today, which we'll get into in a minute, it's like super impressive obviously, is it, it reflects a strong work ethic, but most people who I speak to that are productive.
Right. It's not just about the money productive people, people who like to work, people who like to be productive in different ways, seem to have a bigger ego in a good way, seem to have more confidence because they have a bigger ego, they're productive, and in turn finally they're very happy. And I'm curious, like, do you see that in yourself?
Do you, do you have like a productive lifestyle? Have you always had a productive lifestyle? And does that lead to this level of happiness? And then if you contradict that on the other side where people might have just a JOB and they're not so happy, like, I'm wondering, is that part of who makes you up?
Is that like part of the essence of Nathan McCauley?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, that's a, that's a really interesting question. It's something that I, I kind of constantly look at because, um, there's a [00:16:00] maybe kind of a base part of me that does kind of speak to that JOB notion. You know, when I talk about, uh, you know, growing up among factory workers and. Farmers, uh, there's a kind of a default sense that you wake up and you do stuff like it or not, you know, there's just like a, a job to be done many times, undesirable, uh, many times just takes sweat in order to get it done.
And so that is my, my starting point there. Um, but to this idea of pro productivity, leading to ego, um, in some ways I'd actually flip it, uh, where I would say that part of my productivity was actually driven by imposter syndrome. So coming from rural Indiana, I assumed that I was, I don't know. My starting point maybe was that I was a little bit of a country.
[00:17:00] Maybe that I didn't quite measure up to. Um, people that had gone to better schools, had better education. You know, whatever society kind of says the, the central casting is for entrepreneurs or engineers and, and Silicon Valley. Um, you know, I went to a, I went to a local school in Indiana. I didn't have the best grades, didn't have the base of GPA.
Um, and so I came in with a real sense that there's a chance that I wasn't good enough. And so the only way to ensure that I was good enough was to work like hell. And the more that I worked like hell, the more that I, uh, at least, uh, perspired as much as I possibly could in terms of effort, uh, the more that that would, uh, account for my, uh, deficiencies in terms of my background.
Now in hindsight, it turns out that I wasn't actually deficient in terms of background. Uh, and so what happened was I had incredible amount of productivity, an incredible amount of, um, uh, [00:18:00] you know, uh, career advancement that happened as a result of that. And so I, uh, typically when, when someone tells me that they have a little bit of imposter syndrome, a little bit of that going on, I. 'cause this is your best asset. Uh, the more that you don't quite know if you can do the job, the more that you have some suspense in the thing that you're doing, the more that you will naturally grow, the more that you will naturally push yourself to go beyond your abilities. And so that's one of my, my, one of my most general, general points of advice to people is put yourself in a position where you have some suspense.
Put yourself in a necessarily.
Marc Beckman: I love that. I think that's really compelling. I, I've met a lot of people who are super wealthy and it seems like the work makes them, the productive productivity, makes them happy. And it's not about the money. And I've met people who, um, inherit, inherit, uh, uh, [00:19:00] inherit a lot of money, but yet they're not happy people in many cases.
They don't have friends, they don't have family, they don't have big circles and they have a ton of money, but they're just not happy. So I have this like, thought, this line thinking of, um, productivity. It doesn't have to just be work. Right? And, and it could be a JOB if you enjoy it, if you feel like you're productive.
But it could be charitable work, it could be family, work, whatever it might be, right? Like working with your children and, and helping them prepare for the next day at school. Whatever that productivity is, it helps build your ego, it helps make you happier. And I think it really matters. I think Americans need to get back into that.
Um, Nathan, so, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Nathan McCauley: To, to getting things done. And there's a, there's a sense of self that's derived from that and can be derived from that. Uh, almost no matter what, what job it is that you're doing, and that it, it feels good to [00:20:00] make progress, um, get things done, deliver, um, uh, a service or value or even, you know, uh, uh, helping friends with something.
All of that, uh, really helps. And so I think you're, I think you're really onto something there.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, the dignity thing I think is cool. So San Francisco has really changed a lot. I'm curious, um, do you see a difference between San Francisco when Nathan arrived and San Francisco today?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, I mean, um, so I, I lived in the city for, it must have been from 2008 to, uh, just in the middle of 2022. So kind of the.
What a, what a change from oh eight to to 22. Um, about midway through that, uh, actually had this, uh, taxi driver that, uh, I was talking to. And it was a wonderful conversation where we said, he said, um, that he'd been, he'd grown [00:21:00] up in San Francisco. And I was like, oh, well, I'm not, I'm not from here. I, I grew up somewhere else.
He's, and his vo view was, you're allowed to say you're from San Francisco, if you remember when it was different. Uh, and that was the sign that you'd been there long enough if you'd been there to see the evolution of the city. And so, and, and at that point I started saying, okay, I am a San Francisco now because I have seen this place change.
When you get there in 2008, it's kind of optimism. Optimism kind of develops right after financial. Financial crisis pessimism is kind of buttressed directly with tech optimism. So incredible companies got started during that time. Incredible opportunities. And there was a real, a real optimism that, uh, tech was changing the world for the good that was not just felt in San Francisco, but also enjoyed, um, uh, public zeitgeist positivity as well.
You know, like a lot of people were like, okay, really cool stuff is happening out of San Francisco. And [00:22:00] that, um, that I think changed over time as, as we saw, um, some of the big tech companies build and some of the, uh, opinions start to change on that over time. And then that was, uh, kind of coincident with, um, some amount of, I would say, um, maybe mismanagement of the city itself, uh, in terms of, um.
The way policies rolled out. Some of the, some of the, I think well-meaning experiments that didn't quite have the effects that people were looking for, uh, started to, uh, really hit the city. And so you have a kind of a double dose of that tech pessimism mixed with, uh, bad governance. And then you throw a pandemic on top of that and it's just, uh, it's just an entirely different, uh, landscape within San Francisco.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I feel like it still hasn't recovered and, and um, you know, I hope it does. It's one of my favorite cities in the country. I think physically it's gorgeous, the architecture, the food, it's got a soul. There are only a, a certain amount of hand, [00:23:00] a handful, perhaps, of cities in America that have a soul.
And I think that San Francisco really does. Do you think, if you agree with me, do you think that San Francisco can get better, uh, central management and turn things back a little bit to when it was exciting in that, in that, you know, that era that you're talking about.
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, I think you're, I think you're exactly right. That idea of, uh, the, the soul of a city. Um, you go to a lot of, um, you go to a lot of the largest cities in the world and largest cities in the world are in many ways an amalgamation of everything. Uh, they, they truly embody this melting pot, uh, notion, which is wonderful.
And it's, it's incredible to have these large ones. San Francisco is weird. It's different, it's specific. It is, uh, it is, uh, as a work of art as a city and, uh, that gives it, its, um. It gives its uniqueness and its, its specialness. So I'm absolutely rooting for it. Uh, I think that they will [00:24:00] turn things around.
You're already starting to see some of that, some of that start to happen. But it's, it's such a incredible, it's such an incredible place, uh, geographically. The, the optimism of the, of the, of the tech industry. Um, so much, so much wonderful history there that I think, yeah, it goes in cycles. And so to that, uh, to that taxi driver I talked to, if you remember when things were different, that means you're from there.
And so yes, it will, it's going to recover. And, uh, so I am, I'm Long San Francisco, even if right now they're dealing with some, some challenges that are, uh, pretty profound.
Marc Beckman: So it's an interesting time period. It's 2008 financial crisis hits. Also Bitcoin is, is developed. Um, and I think at that point, if I understand correctly, you are working at Square. Am I right? And, and it's um, early days, fairly early, uh, at Square. What were you doing there?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, so I was lucky enough to be a early employee at Square. Um, [00:25:00] I joined when, about the 40th employee, somewhere around that, when it was still primarily, primarily used for people say, selling someone else their couch on Craigslist, that kind of a, a transaction, very, very small stuff, and got to stay there for four years.
Uh, so from, um, from, uh, something like a million dollars a day in volume all the way up to, uh, just before the company IPO'd and became the, the behemoth that it is now. Uh, I got to work on all things security. Uh, so my first project when I got there was, uh, helping to build the first secure reader, uh, so the, uh, the secure credit card reader that actually, uh, incorporated encryption.
Everything from helping design the crypto there to the manufacturing process. I got to help set up the factory lines in China, um, and,
Marc Beckman: Oh wow.
Nathan McCauley: uh, you know, go, go onsite and help set those up. And it was, uh, it was incredible. I mean, really, uh, really just [00:26:00] a, a fun, probably irresponsible amount of responsibility that I was given, uh, because I was, you know, the, the first security engineer hired, um, uh, beyond the, the manager built team.
Uh, and so just an incredible amount of, uh, cool stuff that I got to build, and that only increased over time. I got to, uh, design the, um, backend systems that stored all the credit cards, processed all the payments, and so just all things security at Square, uh, were things that I got to focus on. And it was just a, it was a wonderful learning experience.
Um, I got to, got to work under incredible le uh, leadership of people like Jack Dorsey Keith. Um, so I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade that time for the world. It was, it was wonderful.
Marc Beckman: It's interesting, um, you know, obviously the, the pathway for security will, you know, will develop in our. Conversation now as we get into Anchorage. But, um, when I first discovered Square as a consumer, that was my biggest [00:27:00] concern. I was like, wow, this is the coolest device with so much application. Here I am in New York City.
There's no way I'm giving this individual my credit card. I. In Union Square, like it's just not happening. And that's what was going on in my head. And I was like, there's so much application, whether it's, you know, a fashion designer or somebody literally selling, you know, farm, like the items from their farm when they come down into the city.
And I was just so fearful of it. So you really dug into, uh, issues of security early on, but I wonder how much of your inspiration or the way that your mind works as it relates to engineering and, and uh, visualizing these systems comes from your upbringing. Like we spoke a lot about the idea of you, um.
Building with your hands and working through different, um, mechanical engineering types of issues, um, at home in Indiana, just naturally with your family, with your friends, but then leading into your [00:28:00] career, I wonder if it served to a certain extent to provide you with a foundation, um, you know, theoretically, but like a foundation in engineering that you were able to build on through schooling and career.
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think I, it actually meant a lot to me that I got to be working at a tech company that legitimately also had a factory. Uh, you know, and that was, of course, that factory was in a different country and it was a different, uh, circumstance. But, uh, back to that point that, you know, like everybody I grew up with made things.
And when I say things, I mean things in the physical world. So it was really cool to get to help, uh, work and set up. The, the factories for Square to, to make those devices. Uh, because it, it felt like, uh, an homage to what I was, what I was familiar with. Uh, and then in terms of, you know, that the more kind of metaphysical idea of building things and, uh, kind of craftsmanship [00:29:00] that goes into it, that was really a central part of the way.
Uh, Jack Dorsey wanted, wanted Square to run, wanted it to be beautiful, wanted it to be handcrafted, wanted every experience to be, uh. Designed such that it would engender the kind of trust that you're talking about. And it turns out that the trust that you're talking about does not come from, uh, us saying, Hey, our security is good.
It comes from the entire experience, the feeling trustworthy, feeling safe. Like the fact that you got the, the receipt to your email and the receipt was beautiful. Uh, these are the things that start to speak to that idea. Like, okay, this is a trustworthy thing. This is something that I can, uh, put my, put my trust into.
Uh, and so that, uh, that idea of craftsmanship, I always really appreciated as something that, uh, something that Square really focused on.
Marc Beckman: Was Jack Dorsey a visionary as it related to superior design? Do you think Steve Jobs inspired him to a certain extent?
Nathan McCauley: [00:30:00] I think so, I think, um, I don't, I don't know that they ever met in person, but I think from afar, the, the Apple design ethos was very, uh, very permeated at. That's where many of the iOS developers and designers, uh, were literally from Apple. Um, and to that point, actually, a lot of the hardware designers were also from Apple.
Uh, and so I think a lot of that ethos, uh, came through there, but we put our own, uh, style on it as well. Uh, so Square was very, very focused on design. We'd have a, a weekly all hands called town square where a part of that was just devoted to appreciating good design. Uh, so yeah, Jack was absolutely a, a visionary in that area.
And, um. Of what Square decided to be
Marc Beckman: Yeah, he's really an interesting person. Um, it's [00:31:00] interesting also that he went eventually into the crypto space. Maybe that's a good segue for
Nathan McCauley: sure.
Marc Beckman: into Anchorage Digital Bank. Um, so I imagine that from. From taking some of your learnings and, and your theories at, with regards to security and Square, it inspired you to create, um, Anchorage.
Uh, am I right? Am I correct? I.
Nathan McCauley: I dunno, ashamed or embarrassed that I missed Bitcoin early on. Uh, you know, it was right there. We, we talked about it a lot at Square. In fact, we even did some early experimentations on it while I was there, and I didn't really, I didn't really necessarily get the point early on with Bitcoin. Uh, it wasn't until later on, so I, I must have joined Square around 2011, not until, not really until 2017 did I kind of get why, uh, Bitcoin was so important, get why Ethereum was so important.
[00:32:00] Uh, but absolutely the, the in inspiration for much of how we designed the security system at Square has echoes in how we designed the, the security system at, at Anchorage. And so just to back up for a little, what Anchorage actually is, is this the company I run? I, I founded it with my friend who I met at Square. And it is a digital asset custodian.
So what that means is that we hold assets, uh, Bitcoin, Ethereum, other assets for large institutional investors, say the hedge funds, sovereign wealth funds, venture capital funds, family offices, ETFs, anybody who needs to hold, uh, dramatic amounts of, uh, cryptocurrency is able to hold it with us. And we do that securely.
The interesting thing there is that the crux of the problem is the security problem. Uh, and so my experience, uh, uh, certainly growing up, I was, I was very interested when I was talking about earlier getting into computers. I was very into security of [00:33:00] computers, looking at exactly how those things worked.
And then my entire career leading up to founding Anchorage, including the time at Square, had been working in software security. So with that, as the crux of the problem, was able to kind of take some of that, uh, uh, knowledge that, that me and my co-founder had and, and used it. To design the early security systems.
And we took a pretty, a, a kind of a contrarian approach to that where we said, Hey, we're gonna design this to be a very secure system, and we're gonna focus on usability in the same way that Squared did. You absolutely don't have to do this when you're, when you're dealing with institutional clients, they'll basically put up with anything.
There's no reason for you to build a retail level usability experience. Uh, but we decided to go ahead and do that because of exactly what I was talking about earlier, where we think that, uh, usability of interfaces and security of interfaces are interconnected and that people don't wanna feel secure, people wanna feel safe, and, uh, [00:34:00] UI and UX being feeling safe is the feeling of security.
Uh, and so that's, that was really a core premise of the, uh, initial, uh, design and, uh, product ideation, uh, that we did at Anchorage.
Marc Beckman: Anchorage is really historic. It's the first federally chartered bank in the, uh, digital space of this nature. And I think if I'm correct, it's still the only federal bank of this nature, correct.
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, that's right. So we, um, we, at the very outset, I guess the, the two things we, I already mentioned is we focused on, uh, security of the system and we focused on usability of the system and, and incredible ux the other. I always say impossible problem we put in ch ahead of ourselves is what if we actually got the whole thing regulated?
Uh, because we knew that institutions in order to adopt, you know, in, in 2017 institutions owned almost no Bitcoin. They almost owned almost nothing. [00:35:00] But we knew that, uh, they would want a regulated counterparty to work with. Uh, and so we always kind of joked we didn't even, actually, honestly didn't even think it was possible.
We joked ideally one day we would become a national bank that could hold digital assets. Well, fast forward five years into our history, we actually succeeded at that and chartered the nation's first. And as you mentioned, still only. National bank that can custody digital assets. Um, and so we have this premier regulatory stamp of approval in a sense that, um, in addition to being secured, in addition to being really usable, it is the most regulated way to hold your digital assets.
This gives us an incredible advantage when going after large holders because they, um, want to know that their assets are held safely and that we are overseen by a, a federal regulator. I do hope over the next, uh, several years that others will fall on our path because I think, I think it's good for there to be multiple, um, national [00:36:00] banks that are holding digital assets.
Uh, but to this point, we are the only one. And we have, we have been operating as the only one now for, uh, going on four years.
Marc Beckman: Nathan, I know that with that comes compliance and regulatory challenges. I believe in 2022, Anchorage came under scrutiny by, uh, the OCC due to shortcomings from your side as it relates to BSA and a ML. So I'm curious, like, is it complicated? And then to take it a little further, it. You're held to the same scrutiny level or the same regulations as a traditional bank.
Can you, if you wanted to store a fiat currency,
Nathan McCauley: Great questions. Great questions. So this is, um, this is an interesting area. So first off, talk a little bit about the, um, the scrutiny from the OCC starting point. There is. We signed up for that. We wanted to be a
Marc Beckman: wanted that,
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, we wanted to be a tri trailblazer. We wanted to be pioneers. And what do we know [00:37:00] about pioneers?
Arrows for better or worse happens if you're the frontier, if you're there.
Marc Beckman: Especially during this time period. Man, I gotta give it to you and we will get into that. But for sure, arrows are an understatement. More like bullets,
Nathan McCauley: Yeah. Um, and so yeah, we, we wanted to do hard things. We wanted to do impossible things. And so we, we got the, got the charter and then started to get exams. And the OCC had feedback that we think is legitimate. They, they came in and said, Hey, this part of your system isn't, uh, as robust as we would want to be.
And we're just like, yep, we agree. Net new things that have never been built before need to get built to satisfy that regulatory obligation to satisfy that regulatory obligation. And so we embrace that and, uh, built all of those systems. Uh, and today, um, I think it's, without exaggeration, we have the most compliant regulatory stack for digital assets [00:38:00] on the planet.
And that has been because we have been building that. I'd say under the watchful eye of the OCC who's giving us kind of a careful, consistent feedback on what we've built there. As we look forward where potentially more and more digital asset banks are going to come in, we think this actually gives us an advantage and potentially working with them. 'cause many large institutions might actually want to come in and might wanna, uh, utilize the fact that we had built so much there, not just on the security side, but also on the, on the.
Marc Beckman: Oh, interesting. Yeah. A lot of growth potential scalability there. Right. And that's great. That's great. So, uh, you got the license right at an interesting time. Did I, I think when we were in DC together, you had mentioned it was literally the last day of the first Trump, um, presidency. Is that, is that correct?
Nathan McCauley: That's right. So we, we had an opportunity to apply for a charter conversion where we converted one of our state charter entities to a national entity. [00:39:00] And we kinda looked at the, looked at the calendar and said, Hey, if we, if we work every day on this, we can get this done before inauguration. Uh, and in indeed, uh, we, uh, converted and our, our charter was signed there in that last week and actually kind of finalized on literally the last day of the first Trump administration.
Um, and so that was, uh, that was a, a big win for us and a, a big opportunity to, uh, get in, get everything going under an administration that was, frankly, that administration was interested in trailblazing, was interested in pushing things forward. Um, the, the next administration came in and had a, a bit of a different approach to digital assets.
Um, but that's a, that's maybe a story to, to follow up on now.
Marc Beckman: Well, you know, it's kind of interesting though because back then President Trump. Was really speaking vocally in favor of the traditional banking system. He was not really, I, I know parts of his team, parts of the, [00:40:00] of the executive branch were Procr or pro Web3, let's say the entire ecosystem. But he didn't personally come out.
He wasn't very vocal. In fact, even after the, um, first administration, uh, during that time period, let's say a year or two after, he was still talking in favor of the traditional banking system. And meanwhile you have the Biden administration that came in and they're like, you know, their uncertainty Gensler's perspective, but also their general philosophy.
It wasn't just about uncertainty. Their, their general philosophy was difficult for the crypto community. And as a result, um, it pushed monies overseas, it pushed investment overseas, it pushed talent overseas. How much of that did you feel firsthand? I know your, um, investors, the, the lineup that you have.
It's so interesting. It's best in class from Andreessen to Goldman, right? Like, I mean, it's not gonna get better than that, but what was happening in your mind or, and what was happening to the [00:41:00] company As Biden and Gensler stepped in and they were really anti crypto.
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, so it was, um, uh, frankly, pretty, impressive how comprehensive the anti crypto stance was from the, the Biden administration, truly in a, in a. Top to bottom since you had, uh, the SEC with, uh, Gary Gensler, who, um, went after not the obvious scammers, you know, didn't, didn't go after the people that are like kind of clear cut, um, violators of securities laws, um, went after basically every large.
Crypto player who was trying to play by the rules. Um, many of these are, are my friends who themselves were trying to register, trying to, uh, meet the rules and regulations. But the SEC provided no guidance. And instead of, uh, saying, Hey, here are the rules of the road, came in and [00:42:00] talked to these existing companies and said, Hey, you're gonna be under a Wells notice.
You're gonna be under a lawsuit from us. We're gonna try to shut you down. Um, and so you had, you had that coming from the, uh, the SEC, which oversees securities, and then on the banking side you had, uh, uniformity among the banking regulators, uh, fed FDIC, and in some sense even the OCC themselves. Come in and say, Hey, we don't want this within the banking system.
We think that, uh, this in the banking system presents, presents real risks. Um, and then you had, uh, explicit actions from the, from the top and the Biden administration saying, Hey, uh, certain kinds of projects just will not stand, uh, within the, within the industry. So, you know, it's, uh, even saying that loud probably to a, to a non crypto audience, it probably sounds like a bit like a conspiracy theory, but I would, I mean, to anyone who hears what I'm saying here and see like, Hey, this is maybe over the top.
It's not over the top. We were. Comprehensively targeted [00:43:00] as an industry by, uh, the, the previous administration basically from all angles. And so how do you run a company like that? Uh, even when you have great investors like we have, when you have great clients like we have is like, well, you, you kind of turtle up, you focus on the areas where you can execute, focus on the areas that aren't necessarily being, being shut down and then do your best for us.
Part of that actually, unfortunately looked like, um, setting up an en an entity in Singapore. Uh, and so we set up basically a copy of our business in Singapore to serve clients from the us. Because, uh, many of our, many of our clients were just like, Hey, we're American entrepreneurs based in Silicon Valley, based in New York, based in the middle of the country even.
Uh, but we don't find the US regulatory apparatus to be reliable. Uh, and so we don't wanna build our business here. And so they move their businesses offshore. Uh, and so we, we serve [00:44:00] them there. And to your point about capital flight, uh, we to this day have a lot of assets, billions of assets that are held in our Singapore entity that our assets, that for all intents and purposes, should be based in the us.
Uh, and that's just because of the, the policies of the previous administration, uh, making feel like it was, uh, unsafe to operate your business within the United States.
Marc Beckman: It's such a shame. Um, so you must have been excited Trump comes out with that first executive order. You, you remember the, the first one, not the, not the, um, Bitcoin Reserve when the night before we were in Washington. But you know, the one where he said there will not be a central bank digital currency.
He really broke down the idea of like focusing in on certainty, providing the industry with growth opportunity because of the certainty. So what's going on in your head? It's like 30 days into the new administration, the executive order comes through and you're reading this document. What are you thinking?
Nathan McCauley: [00:45:00] So when, so my, my story on this one actually goes back to, uh, Bitcoin Nashville. So there was this, this conference at, uh, Bitcoin Nashville where, um, I was invited, uh, by Senator Haggerty, actually, uh, Senator Haggerty invited me to come to Bitcoin, Nashville because Trump was holding a round table with. A, a series of, uh, CEOs from the digital asset industry, uh, just to kind of roll out, uh, a set of policy objectives.
And at the time I didn't really know what to expect. Uh, you know, I, I, the, the point of view had still been kind of neutral from the previous administration, so it wasn't, wasn't quite ready. Uh, but I was like, okay, if, um, we're in the middle of an election, might as well hear him out and see what the plan is at that round table.
He laid out all of his policy positions. That then got delivered in that first EO on the second or third day that he was in office. And so he just [00:46:00] directly delivered on everything that he, uh, said he was going to during the administration. I think for, for most people, uh, like his policies or not, he's doing what he said he was gonna do.
Uh, and for the digital asset industry, it's all wonderful things that we were, um, kind of cautiously optimistic would even be possible. Uh, but, uh, what we've seen is that, uh, he delivered on all those campaign promises. I think the most bullish thing that we heard during the, that round table that we were at was, um, David Sacks, who's the crypto czar, um, Howard Lutnick from Commerce, uh, Scott Bessett from Treasury.
Ask us for feedback on what's next. Uh, don't talk about market structure. Don't talk about stable coins, don't talk about SBR. We're delivering on those, those are a given. What else can we do? Uh, there's kind of a, a active ask for how can we do even more to support this industry? How can we do even more to make sure that more of the industry gets built here so there's more onshoring?
So I am, I am incredibly [00:47:00] bullish and incredibly thankful to the administration for embracing us and, and charting a path forward that I think is very positive and a very good policy for America. You know, we are the innovators. We, we made the internet. We own the capital markets. Uh, so much of the, the innovation in tech happens here.
Why would we not wanna be the winners in digital assets? Makes no sense. Uh, it just makes sense for us to continue, uh, being the, the center of gravity and the center of universe. And so America should win in digital assets. And I think that's the, that appears to be the policy of the administration.
Marc Beckman: So beyond SBR and everything else, where do you think we're going? What's next in your opinion?
Nathan McCauley: So I, I think, um. With so many things cleared up. So SBR established the strategic Bitcoin reserve. This is wonderful because we're the, the US is taking a hold approach for its digital assets and owns it, actually already owns a bunch of digital assets because of, uh, law [00:48:00] enforcement seizures. So first thing is hold onto those.
Make sure that we don't sell those prematurely. Previous administrations have sold so much that I think it's cost taxpayer something like 17 billions. Past legislation around stable coins. Stable coins are this incredible opportunity to expand the reach of the US dollar, uh, where right now dollars basically propagate in America and then through banks.
Uh, with stable coins, we have an opportunity to export the dollar to every corner of the globe. Uh, and so, uh, reach of the dollar. Plus the fact that, um, stable coins are net new buyers of treasuries because the way you set up a stablecoin is that you, you bring in dollars and then you go buy treasuries with them.
And already something like the eighth floor, just owner of treasuries right now is the stablecoin market. This can go to many trillions. And so I think passing these laws will just un unlock an incredible amount of innovation on that. Uh, and that'll be wonderful for the US dollar [00:49:00] dominance. Uh, they'll set it up well for the next century.
I think we're gonna see much mo more and more banks start to come in. Digital assets we're the first, but, um. Over the next four years, you might wake up and say, Hey, there's no such thing as a crypto bank. Just like there's no such thing as an internet company. Everybody is a crypto company. Everybody will be an internet, uh, enabled bank.
Um, so I, I think we're gonna, we're gonna see that happen and I think we're gonna see a, a return of entrepreneurship to the digital asset industry. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, many of them move their businesses overseas. Many of them decided it's not even worth it. I'm not gonna go after this if there's so much regulatory overhang with things cleared up and, uh, more freedom to innovate here.
I think we're gonna see more net new entrepreneurs come in. Uh, and that's gonna be, that's gonna be really wonderful for innovation in the space.
Marc Beckman: Yeah, I agree with you. I, I, uh, echo you're a, you're a bullish, um, attitude. You're a bullish sentiment for sure. But yet, when I walk [00:50:00] around, um, in, in business meetings, in circles here in New York City, there are still skeptics, there are still people who believe that crypto is a scam. So in simple terms, like how would you, how would you debunk that argument just for the average person, um, who's not an expert the way you are, the average person who believes that crypto, um, really is not worth putting money into, and, and it is a scam.
How would you debunk that?
Nathan McCauley: I would, I would start, and most of these conversations start with a conversation about what is, what is money. And I think that's, uh, just in really simple terms, we all get paid in the US dollar. Uh, we all transact in the US dollar. Many of us save in the US dollar. And one of the, one of the core issues with the US dollar is that more and more of it's gets printed.
Uh, and so if you want something to be valuable, it should be scarce. Why is gold valuable? Because there's not that much of it. [00:51:00] Why is, uh, why is real estate valuable? Because. There's only so much land that you can buy if you go to go to land in Manhattan. Why is it valuable? Because it's scarce. What we have with Bitcoin, particularly with Bitcoin, is an asset where there is a fixed supply.
It is fixed at 21 million units of Bitcoin, and more and more people want this asset and there's less and less of it that is coming out over time. Uh, so just simple supply demand dynamics mean that as demand increases for this asset and supply is fixed, supply will not increase with demand. Uh, the only way that gets dealt with is by the price going up.
Uh, and so that's what we've seen for the last 15 years of Bitcoin's history is as more and more people want it and there's less and less of it available, um, the price has gone up. Uh, and so this makes it a, uh, wonderful opportunity for an investment asset. I've, I'm very long Bitcoin [00:52:00] myself and, uh, and very excited that now the US is going to be holding its Bitcoin in order to, uh, also pursue this, uh, pursue this strategy.
Um, now that's the, that's the case for Bitcoin. Any other asset? There's a different thing. You probably should go do your research and look into those, but I think the, the core and the, the biggest asset within the, within the crypto industry is, is Bitcoin. And that's the, the basic pitch for it. Scarcity drives demand demand drives price increase.
Marc Beckman: Nathan, can you are, are you, um, in a position where you're permitted to comment about some of the other digital assets, um, you know, like E and ada, so XRP are, are you allowed from, you know, your vantage point to, to talk about them?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, totally talk to, and so is there.
Marc Beckman: I'm curious. I'm curious because like, obviously, you know, early days Ethereum was [00:53:00] just such an exciting community. Um, there were so many builders and, and it still is very exciting. Obviously it's, it's got a, you know, a, a, a ton of um, uh, I guess use cases built into it as well. But it really has been getting beaten down lately in so many different ways.
Not just financially, but also, um, I think there's like a, a new mindset about ETH right now. So I'm curious from your perspective, what's your take on it?
Nathan McCauley: Sure. So I think the, I think one of the core debates right now within the crypto community, and I'll try to keep this high level for the audience, um, is around this, uh, Ethereum versus Solana debate. And I think a lot of that is, is, uh, people trying to, trying to find their way through that one. Um, so just to back up a little bit, uh, Ethereum and Solana are attempts to build what I would call the world computer.
So if, if Bitcoin is, uh, trying to be a store of value or trying to be a payment mechanism, it's, it's [00:54:00] trying to be, uh, currency or value in a sense, um, and built that in a distributed way so that nobody owns it, but everybody can utilize it. But it's just a payment rail. It's just a value rail. Uh, it's not, uh, an attempt to run code or run software.
What Ethereum and Solana take as their core premise is, let's do for, um, money what bit, what Bitcoin did for money Ethan Solana want to do for compute. They literally want to be world computers that are owned by no one and, uh, able to execute code. What makes what makes this interesting is now you can run applications in a decentralized way, and so you can build, uh, automatic, uh, financial applications and over time, maybe even, uh, distributed social networks, uh, where no one necessarily owns the core infrastructure that that runs on.
This is a super important theory because, [00:55:00] uh, right now I think what's actually driving a lot of, um, nationalism is the fact that our infrastructure is attached to the nation states, and if. Neutral infrastructure that can be used by any of the nation states, then all of a sudden you've got something where everybody can trust that infrastructure.
Um, in the same way that the whole world over can trust Bitcoin because nobody owns it. Uh, Ethereum and Solana, you have this opportunity to build infrastructure that everybody can trust because nobody owns it. So that's the theory. That's what the attempt is with that is, uh, truly build global infrastructure that anybody can run on.
Um. A computer is a lot harder to build than a payment network. And what you're seeing with e particularly is that it's had trouble scaling. Um, it's had trouble, uh, being able to handle the load that's going on there. Uh, and this is, this is driving people to, um, have alternatives to EH uh, that actually in many cases [00:56:00] run on top of, um, Ethereum.
Uh, but the, the value doesn't necessarily accrue to the chain. And, and so that's really kind of at the heart of the question with Ethereum is can it scale and can enough of the use cases be built on the chain versus being built on, uh, in other areas that don't necessarily, um, value Ethereum as much. I'm still a big Ethereum holder despite the fact that it's been, uh, you know, flat for going on two years now.
I still do believe in it, um, believe in it long term. Um, but that's kind of what's happening there. Solana, on the other hand, Solana is a scalable outta the get get. Uh, core set of, uh, team there. Uh, kind of designed it with some of, um, some scalability in mind from first principles, and therefore a lot more, um, use cases are getting built there as well.
Um, those use cases are happening on the base chain, so there's more opportunity for cross collaboration, uh, with [00:57:00] those applications. And so that's been really a, a benefit to Solana that they've built themselves in a, in a scalable way out of the gate. Um, so I think, I think there's actually room for both of these over time and I'm, I'm rooting for both of them.
Um. And again, I'm, I'm actually also a owner of Solana, and so I, I represent my feeling there with both of those. I, I, I, I'm, I'm bullish on both of them, uh, but that's kind of the, the core of the debate that's been going on there. And, um, it's really a, a search for the, you know, San Francisco has a, um, a soul as you said, and I think, uh, E and Solana also have a, a bit of a soul.
Uh, and you can opt into or not, uh, the soul of those communities.
Marc Beckman: I agree. I agree. So where does AI fit in, in your opinion? I believe that crypto and artificial intelligence are inexorably connected. I believe that the two verticals, these two emerging technologies, will, um, probably [00:58:00] represent the largest percentage growth for, uh, any business sector in the United States over the next four to five years.
In your opinion, uh, where do you see artificial intelligence impacting crypto the most?
Nathan McCauley: So I think this one's, um, there's a lot of angles to look at. This one. I think the, the first place I'd start is that there was a, there's a period of time where it looked like, um. AI and artificial intelligence was going to be a, a matter of massive scale in terms of infrastructure build. And that massive scale of infrastructure build was gonna lead to real concentration of power, frankly.
Uh, and that to me was a little bit worrying because the, the decentralization ethoses, the, the crypto is that we should decentralize power and the decentralization of power is good for humanity. And so it was looking like for a while that AI was going to centralize a lot of power, um, and that that might ne be like [00:59:00] maybe a, maybe in fact a net negative, uh, for society. To that end, I think, uh, developments like deep seek have been an incredible gift to humanity. Uh, the idea that AI models can get built with far less resources than we previously thought possible is an incredible gift because if that's true. Then you're gonna see a commoditization of AI in a way where it's going to be generally available to everyone.
And what we're now seeing is many companies are being able to build AI models, and it's looking more and more like this is going to be a, uh, a common piece of infrastructure that everybody gets to utilize. Um, once you start to see, um, commoditization of, uh, infrastructure and commoditization of models, that means that they are going to be, uh, inherently a primitive that gets integrated into the AI tools, um, excuse me, into the, into the crypto tools.
Uh, so AI x crypto is absolutely an area that's, I think is gonna be ripe with innovation. And we're, we're [01:00:00] just at the very starting line of that. Um, so I can't even imagine the, the things that are, are going to happen there. I have some friends who are working on building businesses in this space where it's, um.
Really just exploratory at this point is like, is it about training models, is about using AI models in blockchain use cases. Uh, do you want to have, uh, AI models, um, queryable from the blockchain interfaces? I don't know. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I know that this, uh, this kind of remix, uh, is going to be wonderful.
Uh, I think of it almost as like the, the trend of the last few years where, um, hip hop has kind of merged with country, uh, and there's a lot of like wonderful songs and, uh, like crossovers that have happened there. I think we're gonna see that. But in, in crypto and AI and those, those crossovers are gonna be really wonderful.
Marc Beckman: I never thought I would be talking to you about hip hop, country, crypto, and AI all in one sentence.
Nathan McCauley: It's.[01:01:00]
Marc Beckman: It's awesome. It's awesome. So let me ask you, um, just to get back onto the, uh, per, to be a little bit more personal again, like I, I know, um, you and, and your wife and, and the community that you're with within has, has done some, uh, exceptional work on a human level, uh, specifically with regards to foster care.
Um, it's something that strikes a chord for me for obvious reasons, and, and we could get into it. But, uh, would you be open to the idea of sharing a little bit about your experience with the foster care community?
Nathan McCauley: Yeah. Yeah, I would, I would love to. So foster care on a, on a personal level is something that's very, very important to me. I, my, my wife and I, uh, became foster parents within San Francisco, uh, while we were there. Uh, so, um. Remembering back to that part, we, we lived there for about 14 years, and for probably about half that time, we were [01:02:00] active in the, in the foster care community, um, uh, both, uh, formally and informally.
Um, we eventually ended up going through formal, uh, foster parenting training, uh, where we became, uh, formal, uh, foster parents in San Francisco. They actually call it resource families. And so what that looks like is you go through a formalized training with the, with the city, um, several weeks of training that you go through to kind of help yourself understand exactly what it means to be a foster parent, what it means to bring someone into your home who might be coming from a, a, any number of difficult situations, either something maybe directly at birth or maybe a, maybe a, a younger child who's gone through some, um, unfortunate situations and needs to, needs some help there.
Um, and so when you go through the training and then after that, um. Uh, you kind of wait until a, uh, a child is placed with you and then you have the opportunity to, um, be a part of that child's life, provide stability and infrastructure [01:03:00] in a, in a very, um, uh, very vulnerable time in the child's life. Uh, and so there's a, there's a lot of, uh, particular things to think about there in terms of, uh, helping with attachment theory.
A big, a big part of what you go through in foster training, foster your training is this idea that especially in early childhood education, uh, early childhood development, a lot of what needs to happen in order to eventually lead a, uh, uh, fulfilling life is being able to attach to people that ability to, uh, trust others and know that they're there for you.
Uh, and so the, the idea really is around making sure that, uh, you provide a loving place for the children so that. The default mechanisms of attachment of trust, of love are sustained even through, uh, traumatic situations. Uh, and so, uh, there's a, there's an opportunity to, to provide that. Now that said, uh, [01:04:00] what that means is that there's a lot of what, a lot of emotional burden on the parents or on the foster parents, uh, because you are dealing with someone who's going through a lot a, a child who, who needs care and love and affection.
Um, and so in a sense, you, uh, kind of raise your hand to take on that burden to help them through that, uh, in. Eventually the hopes that there's an opportunity for reunification with the parents. Um, ultimately the, the goal of foster parenting is that there's a, uh, a chance for the, the parents, whatever the situation might be, to get into a position where it's now appropriate, again, to bring the, bring the child back into that situation.
Uh, and so, uh, foster parent's core really is an attempt to, um, provide a safe place for a period of time for that child, uh, so that they can then go back, uh, ideally into a, a positive, affirming, uh, and safe situation [01:05:00] with their, with their parents.
Marc Beckman: How many children have you fostered?
Nathan McCauley: So I've, uh, directly, we directly fostered one for, um, a, um, on and off throughout that, uh, seven year, seven year period. And then, um. All of my, all of my close friends, I'm kind of in a, a, a friend group where all of them have fostered as well. And there's been, um, a variety of, um, you know, onwards of, um, probably a dozen throughout, uh, that have come in through there.
And for me it's, um, it's kind of as important to, I mean, if you have the emotional capacity, if you have the capability to be a foster parent, I would definitely recommend it. Um, and even, even equally as important role is to be there for other foster parents as it can be a difficult and challenging process.
Um, there's a, um, there's a real opportunity to come [01:06:00] alongside them and provide, uh, help and care, uh, throughout that. And so, um, certainly during my story we were, my wife and I were able to do it because of how much support we got from our friends. Uh, and so now I'm actually, um. Part of a part of an organization and worked with an organization called Foster the City.
And what Foster the City's goal is, is to, um, help set up faith communities and churches to provide training for foster parents, and also training for what they call resource families. Which of those families that come alongside, uh, foster parents to help them through that journey?
Marc Beckman: That's phenomenal. Nathan, I gotta ask you, um, do you have more satisfaction from your experiences in the foster care space than you do in the business space?
Nathan McCauley: You know, it's, it's interesting. I, um, I don't, um, [01:07:00] I don't know if I'd necessarily think of them as either or. Um,
Marc Beckman: Yeah.
Nathan McCauley: for me it's, it's really more of a, um, I don't know. I don't wanna, I don't wanna think of it as like a, uh. Portfolio theory of life satisfaction. Uh, but I think it's, uh, I think it's important to be, uh, kind of dynamic in your, in your interests. Uh, you don't necessarily wanna be one track minded or only kind of only focused on one area, focused on one thing.
Uh, and so that's, uh, probably what I would say there. Um, so it's just a, it's just a, a different kind of thing. Um, you know, building a company, building a team, building a, a community in your company is, uh, extremely satisfying. And then, um, helping, uh, helping your community through, through foster parenting is, uh, uh, also also wonderful.
So I necessarily, [01:08:00] uh, necessarily.
Marc Beckman: That's fair. That's fair. It, you know, it's, it's, um, the issue continues though, right? I mean, after foster care children, uh, reach the age of majority, most of them become, uh, almost like. They enter the stage where they're floating through life. Only two to 3% of children from the foster care community who reach the age of majority continue on with some level of education, whether that's university or some sort of trade or something like this.
And I think as a result of it, now all of a sudden they're independent. They don't have a lot of resources, they might not even have a place to live. And that's why we see people getting mixed up with, um, being homeless and drugs and prostitution and whatnot. And I think it's important, uh, for people that get involved with foster care to remember that, um, it could be an ongoing issue.
And it often is. And once those, uh, individuals become young adults and reach the age of [01:09:00] majority, they still need support. And it's not just support with regards to access to academia. It goes beyond that. Housing is important. Access to food is important, healthcare is important. All of these issues. Exist right here in America.
So I, you know, I really applaud you and, and your, uh, wife and, and your friends, uh, for the work that you're doing. It's super important. You know, I'm, I'm very proud of the work that I do with the First Lady of the United States of America with fostering the future. It's one of the areas of my career and my life that I, uh, find the most, uh, significant.
We're impacting people's lives, people that really need it. And these are the next generation. Look, the next, you know, these kids that are coming through foster care, they're gonna be the next, um, inventor of the next Anchorage. So it's, it's an important thing. And, you know, I really applaud you.
Nathan McCauley: Yeah, I mean I, uh, the, the outcomes right now [01:10:00] statistically for, for foster kids are probably one of our biggest opportunities for, um, changing outcomes. Uh, so it's, it's. Uh, a real area of focus and I think, uh, getting wonderful people into the, the foster care ecosystem, uh, kind of earlier on is, uh, centrally important.
Uh, but as important as, um, you know, that that ongoing, um. Life, a life set of outcomes. E everything you said from its education, housing, um, making sure that, uh, uh, sustainable employment is gained. Uh, there's a lot of things that come from, uh, traumatic, uh, potentially traumatic childhoods, uh, that are, that are ongoing there.
And so I think the, the work, uh, that the, the First Lady is doing with fostering the future is incredibly important. And, uh, probably one of our, our greatest opportunities, uh, for success. Uh, you know, it's interesting to, to think about it that like, um, [01:11:00] many, many of our, uh, great stories in, um, in fiction are foster children.
Uh, if you look at, um, Luke Skywalker. If you look at Harry Potter, uh, you know, uh, there's, there's something about the, the foster story, uh, that I think is, uh, centrally important, uh, to the, the imagination of, uh, of, of America and of, of that fiction. And so I, I think, uh, way I think about it is that like if we can get more Luke Skywalks, get more Harry Potters that come out of the, the foster care system, uh, then that would be a, a great opportunity for success.
Marc Beckman: And we will, we certainly will, Nathan. So, um, you've given me just an extraordinary amount of your time, incredible insight. You've been so personal with me. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about specifically that we haven't covered? Because if not, I'm gonna bring you through the process of ending the [01:12:00] show, uh, the same process that I have every guest go through.
It's a little, a little brutal, but I'm gonna challenge you.
Nathan McCauley: Okay. I think I'm ready. Yeah. We've covered a lot. Uh, let's do it.
Marc Beckman: So, um, as you know, the show is named Some Future Day, and what I do is I create a lead question and I ask my guest to finish the lead question. So for you, Nathan, in some future day crypto assets will become
Nathan McCauley: The primary store of value of, uh, infrastructure and of, um, savings for not just the U.S., uh, but for everyone globally.
Marc Beckman: Nathan. Thank you so much for joining me today on Some Future Day. It's really been a pleasure.
Nathan McCauley: Thanks so much for having me. This was wonderful.
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